Type 31 Frigate

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
Not very close to T31e but from what I have seen there is a lot of internal optimism. All platforms mature and the designs for 31 thus far are all decent. They'll do the job and help make programme room for the T23/26 and T45.
Don't get me wrong, I think the concept is excellent but procurement had slipped from a simple design with masses of flexibility for bidders in how to respond to more complexity and more mandated structures and restrictions. Unless there's a fundamental shift in what really matters - ok ships in the water - and what drives cost - masses of redesign to meet gold plated standards then we'll see another hiatus in 4 months time. I can only assume that there have been some frank customer/supplier discussions between pausing and restarting.
 
If these ships aren't intended for use in a peer/near peer engagement, then surely "stealth" isn't a consideration, so a "modernised" old & proven design would surely be a cheaper option?
 
Ships are essentially bespoke builds and the most recent design we have is T23 (which is 30 years old). By the time you've modernised the plans and built the damn things, you might as well have started from a clean sheet. The cost savings aren't much in the grand scheme of things.
 
Don't get me wrong, I think the concept is excellent but procurement had slipped from a simple design with masses of flexibility for bidders in how to respond to more complexity and more mandated structures and restrictions. Unless there's a fundamental shift in what really matters - ok ships in the water - and what drives cost - masses of redesign to meet gold plated standards then we'll see another hiatus in 4 months time. I can only assume that there have been some frank customer/supplier discussions between pausing and restarting.
Slipped, or moved closer to what the customer needs, which is rather more than a beefed-up gunboat?
 
I would love to comment and correct some of the misunderstandings, but i am rather too close to this one and quite like being able to pay the mortgage!

I will say however that there is very little additional info at my level on the restarted process yet, only what is in the public domain, and the assumption that no-one was compliant on the initial submissions is incorrect.
 
I would love to comment and correct some of the misunderstandings, but i am rather too close to this one and quite like being able to pay the mortgage!

I will say however that there is very little additional info at my level on the restarted process yet, only what is in the public domain, and the assumption that no-one was compliant on the initial submissions is incorrect.

Slightly different I know but I buy fridge vans for work, I ordered 8 last month.
When you buy off the shelf you get very competetive deals. When you want bespoke the price starts to rise very sharply. You only still get a deal when the bespoke bits are bolt on and routine, ie those bespoke bits are selected from the options list.

Ships aren't going to be any different really, you want cheap you buy off the shelf, you want bespoke, you are going to have to pay.

Type 31 is budgetted at Ford Focus money, nobody is goinf to offer a Bentley for the same price
 
Slightly different I know but I buy fridge vans for work, I ordered 8 last month.
When you buy off the shelf you get very competetive deals. When you want bespoke the price starts to rise very sharply. You only still get a deal when the bespoke bits are bolt on and routine, ie those bespoke bits are selected from the options list.

Ships aren't going to be any different really, you want cheap you buy off the shelf, you want bespoke, you are going to have to pay.

Type 31 is budgetted at Ford Focus money, nobody is goinf to offer a Bentley for the same price
This is true. It doesn't however follow that no bid was compliant. The MoD have not specified a Bentley, they have actually specified something like a bottom range BMW, on what should be that level of money, but would like more if they can get it - seems sensible to me.

That was the old process though so we will see what the restart brings....
 
This is true. It doesn't however follow that no bid was compliant. The MoD have not specified a Bentley, they have actually specified something like a bottom range BMW, on what should be that level of money, but would like more if they can get it - seems sensible to me.

That was the old process though so we will see what the restart brings....
Is it an attractive enough deal to the suppliers though?

When I want to order a couple of vans the suppliers are mildly interested. When word got around I was buying on a rolling program in more serious quantities suppliers started calling me to pursue a deal.
 
This is true. It doesn't however follow that no bid was compliant. The MoD have not specified a Bentley, they have actually specified something like a bottom range BMW, on what should be that level of money, but would like more if they can get it - seems sensible to me.

That was the old process though so we will see what the restart brings....
If I was the MOD, I would rather have a top spec Ford rather than a poverty spec BMW. The Ford will be much better if you ignore badge snobbery.
 
Is it an attractive enough deal to the suppliers though?

When I want to order a couple of vans the suppliers are mildly interested. When word got around I was buying on a rolling program in more serious quantities suppliers started calling me to pursue a deal.
Yes.
 
If I was the MOD, I would rather have a top spec Ford rather than a poverty spec BMW. The Ford will be much better if you ignore badge snobbery.
I agree, but was trying to make a point.

ETA: going back to lurking to avoid saying to much...
 
Which would imply that lurking is educational, for anyone... on the right fora.

One from time to time do just wonder who lurks here, other than the regular home grown indigenous contributors.
 
Aspirations met reality.

RN wanted a T23 GP replacement for the same cost as a Batch 2 OPV

£250 million fixed per hull all in ready to rock and roll does not buy you a 5,000 tonne Frigate no matter how many Powerpoints you throw at the problem.
 
Is it an attractive enough deal to the suppliers though?

When I want to order a couple of vans the suppliers are mildly interested. When word got around I was buying on a rolling program in more serious quantities suppliers started calling me to pursue a deal.

If you were after a number of decent vans, spent the day kicking the tyres of a Vito, agreed these were what you were going to buy, then told the salesman you could only afford a poverty spec Citan, would you expect him to sell you Vitos for Citan money?
 
Aspirations met reality.

RN wanted a T23 GP replacement for the same cost as a Batch 2 OPV

£250 million fixed per hull all in ready to rock and roll does not buy you a 5,000 tonne Frigate no matter how many Powerpoints you throw at the problem.
But it might just buy you a 4,000 tonne frigate...
 
I was going to write something erudite and wordy about this, but then I realised that it doesn't matter because Abbey Wood will just make a complete cock-up of it anyway.
 
That was the old process though so we will see what the restart brings....
I love the RN/MoD - if in doubt, change the process...
 

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