Type 31 Frigate

‘I am both surprised and concerned about HMS Scott because she does a lot of oceanographic work on behalf of Britain’s nuclear [submarine] deterrent and this is a capability we need to retain".

They may have caught up over the last 30 years but I doubt it. one of the charts that we used, parts of according to the dit on the bottom was last surveyed in 189? from a row boat, soundings in a 1 cable grid, depth not considered accurate. We used to go though there dived and the odd sea mount was still being found :eek::eek:

Scott has the same US DoD supplied survey suite as her same tasked US equivalents, so we won’t be losing access the deep seabed survey capability.

A much more capable replacement for Gleaner, HMS Magpie comes into service shortly, and don’t underestimate how capable the autonomous and semi autonomous hydrographic survey drones are proving to be.
 
Also worth remembering that "marine scientific research" requires the permission of a nation to conduct inside their Exclusive Economic Zone. Military survey vessels however currently get away with claiming lawful use, i.e. not requiring permission. So civilianising our survey vessels would remove our ability to survey vast swathes of water we should very much be interested in.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
Probably on the BAE website as well.
Cammell Laird suppliers' conference. All nice press work but the design is still immature and they'll struggle to build it in the time available. Its shaping up to be an interesting contest.
 
All nice press work but all the designs are still immature and they'll struggle to build it in the time available. Its shaping up to be an interesting contest.
Fixed FoC.

Given that there are a very limited number of credible build facilities in the UK (onshore build mandated by NSBS), particularly outside Team 31 and Team Leander, "struggle" is going to apply across the board. Especially for some of the more exotic entrants.
 
Do you think the competition will ultimately come down to who can credibly build them on time to avoid frigate numbers dipping too far as T23 goes out of service? I get the impression as we eat into a time target risk will be an increasingly important factor
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
Fixed FoC.

Given that there are a very limited number of credible build facilities in the UK (onshore build mandated by NSBS), particularly outside Team 31 and Team Leander, "struggle" is going to apply across the board. Especially for some of the more exotic entrants.
Agreed. The race in this one has been to see who can get Harland & Wolff on the team. My suspicion is that Govt will step in after the winner is announced to ensure work is shared outside the obvious builders. Don't be too sure everyone's design is immature as it seems. Some interesting designs have been offered.

Defence Contracts Bulletin announcement today - Expressions of Interest by prime contractors only. Contracts for the competitive design stage to be awarded in 7 weeks time. Sporty.
 
Agreed. The race in this one has been to see who can get Harland & Wolff on the team. My suspicion is that Govt will step in after the winner is announced to ensure work is shared outside the obvious builders. Don't be too sure everyone's design is immature as it seems. Some interesting designs have been offered.

Defence Contracts Bulletin announcement today - Expressions of Interest by prime contractors only. Contracts for the competitive design stage to be awarded in 7 weeks time. Sporty.
All of which re-inforces the rather unfortunate impression that MoD/HMG were/are desperate to avoid a head to head between Team 31 and Team Leander, by encouraging the more exotic teams to use the only remaining uncommitted facility (unless you count Fergies), whose credibility as a shipbuilder is very limited. As for the designs, aside from the three UK ones (only one of which is mature-ish) - last I looked there were two based on existing ships from euro houses, plus the fanboy favourite which would have to shrink quite a bit.

Very sporty. Particularly if they decide to start trying to implement modular build on a £250M ship as you imply.....
 
NO. Not a Naval task, you've OGDs for that with RN support when it can. We should be stepping away smartly from fishing policing
Of course:

FISHERY PROTECTION
The mission of the Fishery Protection Squadron is to patrol the fishery limits of England, Wales and Northern Ireland - an area that covers over 80,000 square miles of sea and stretches up to 200 miles from the coastline.
The Fishery Protection Squadron (FPS) is the oldest front line squadron in the Royal Navy. With a small headquarters staff based in Portsmouth Naval Base, the Squadron comprises 3 River Class Offshore Patrol Vessels in UK waters and one Offshore Patrol Vessel (Helicopter) stationed as the Falkland Isles Patrol Vessel.
The primary task of the Royal Navy, in its role of patrolling UK's Extended Fisheries Zone, is its involvement in the highly emotive and politically sensitive UK and European fishing industry. The introduction of the River Class has drawn attention to the FPS, highlighting the valuable task that all ships in the Squadron perform.
These versatile ships are able to operate with helicopters, and could be utilised in the maritime counter terrorism, counter-drug surveillance or pollution control role in addition to their core tasking of fishery protection.
The operational programme of the FPS takes its ships to many ports in the United Kingdom and the West Coast of Europe where they routinely 'fly the flag' and play a key public relations role during port open days and fish festivals. Each ship and every person in the Squadron plays a vital part in sustaining the complex tapestry of our Economic Exclusion Zone control.
 
Nope, it goes back to UKHO, a trading fund, and entirely discrete from MoD in that respect.
Sure is:

Who we are
We are a trading fund of the Ministry of Defence (MOD) and employ circa 900 people based in Taunton, Somerset. In the tax year 2016 to 2017 our paper and digital products and services generated a turnover of £145 million, enabling us to pay a £11 million dividend to MOD.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
All of which re-inforces the rather unfortunate impression that MoD/HMG were/are desperate to avoid a head to head between Team 31 and Team Leander, by encouraging the more exotic teams to use the only remaining uncommitted facility (unless you count Fergies), whose credibility as a shipbuilder is very limited. As for the designs, aside from the three UK ones (only one of which is mature-ish) - last I looked there were two based on existing ships from euro houses, plus the fanboy favourite which would have to shrink quite a bit.

Very sporty. Particularly if they decide to start trying to implement modular build on a £250M ship as you imply.....
There was much discussion on the viability of a 3rd bid after the Babcock and BAE teaming announcements and MOD has spent a great deal of time ensuring that there's at least a 3rd bidder. The trouble is that not all parts of MOD have been talking the same language and some of the announcements on UK design & build has conflicted. I don't think there's anyone left standing who can do it for the money.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
Of course:

FISHERY PROTECTION
The mission of the Fishery Protection Squadron is to patrol the fishery limits of England, Wales and Northern Ireland - an area that covers over 80,000 square miles of sea and stretches up to 200 miles from the coastline.
The Fishery Protection Squadron (FPS) is the oldest front line squadron in the Royal Navy. With a small headquarters staff based in Portsmouth Naval Base, the Squadron comprises 3 River Class Offshore Patrol Vessels in UK waters and one Offshore Patrol Vessel (Helicopter) stationed as the Falkland Isles Patrol Vessel.
The primary task of the Royal Navy, in its role of patrolling UK's Extended Fisheries Zone, is its involvement in the highly emotive and politically sensitive UK and European fishing industry. The introduction of the River Class has drawn attention to the FPS, highlighting the valuable task that all ships in the Squadron perform.
These versatile ships are able to operate with helicopters, and could be utilised in the maritime counter terrorism, counter-drug surveillance or pollution control role in addition to their core tasking of fishery protection.
The operational programme of the FPS takes its ships to many ports in the United Kingdom and the West Coast of Europe where they routinely 'fly the flag' and play a key public relations role during port open days and fish festivals. Each ship and every person in the Squadron plays a vital part in sustaining the complex tapestry of our Economic Exclusion Zone control.

Very aware of the blurb. However if you read the Defence and Royal Navy Plan you'd see how much we commit to this and why. It's expressed in a number of days we will commit platforms to a "task" - my point remains it isn't an RN task. The policing and enforcing responsibility for IUU doesn't lie with the RN it's an OGD responsibility that we help enable.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
Sure is:

Who we are
We are a trading fund of the Ministry of Defence (MOD) and employ circa 900 people based in Taunton, Somerset. In the tax year 2016 to 2017 our paper and digital products and services generated a turnover of £145 million, enabling us to pay a £11 million dividend to MOD.
Again, hugely aware as this forms a large part of my day job. Noting as a trading fund it is an absolutely discrete entity (i.e. no Navy Board oversight etc) which is why and how it operates in the commercial market. The annual dividends are lovely but not particularly significant.
 
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