Type 26 Frigate

MI as in Michigan @Kromeriz, not Military Intelligence! Anyway, now that you've got it off of your chest...
Enjoyed MI and had a good time all round. Which was nice warm up for Colorado.
 
I'm not sure how many data points @History_Man was basing his judgment on. Detroit is pretty different from the rest of the state. Ann Arbor is different as well, but in a different way. The rest of Michigan is pretty typical of the middle and north-eastern US, with some severely run down bits adjacent to some pretty well off bits, rural yahoos dressed in camouflage and festooned with guns, suburbanites with a siege mentality with regards to resisting incursions by the Mad Max hordes they imagine inhabiting the poorer major cities, smug think-they're-sort-of-wealthy-and-sophisticated types who insist you must have heard of whatever high priced and overly regulated "community" they've bought their way into, etc.

I'm not as familiar with Ann Arbor as I've never had reason to go there on business, but I'm told it's actually like a bit of Ontario drifted across the river and got stuck somewhere inland, and as such may as well be from another planet so far as the rest of the state (or the adjacent states) are concerned.
The only downright rude and I'll mannered people met was when we crossed the river. It got worse after getting through customs as well.
 
I'm not sure how many data points @History_Man was basing his judgment on. Detroit is pretty different from the rest of the state. Ann Arbor is different as well, but in a different way. The rest of Michigan is pretty typical of the middle and north-eastern US, with some severely run down bits adjacent to some pretty well off bits, rural yahoos dressed in camouflage and festooned with guns, suburbanites with a siege mentality with regards to resisting incursions by the Mad Max hordes they imagine inhabiting the poorer major cities, smug think-they're-sort-of-wealthy-and-sophisticated types who insist you must have heard of whatever high priced and overly regulated "community" they've bought their way into, etc.

I'm not as familiar with Ann Arbor as I've never had reason to go there on business, but I'm told it's actually like a bit of Ontario drifted across the river and got stuck somewhere inland, and as such may as well be from another planet so far as the rest of the state (or the adjacent states) are concerned.
Agree with you there. South East Michigan (SE-MI) is quite urbanised and cosmopolitan compared to rest of MI which is a lot more rural, and with all the characteristics you mention.
 
I say, Chaps. Could you take this tosh over to the "America, It's all a bit odd" thread, please?

This is drifting a perfectly good nautical discussion, don't you know?
:)
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
I see Johny Mercer has ramped up his drumming for the T26 to be based solely in Guzz. @alfred_the_great I get building an ASW COE there, but does that necessarily mean all T26 have to be based there?

We've forward basing to consider, yard capacity, retention (not everyone enjoys the coastal road) and operationally why wouldn't you keep the FRS/TAPS at Portsmouth?

I certainly can't see an argument for T31 and T26 but I can see an argument to base 4+ T26 in Guzz, could be all 8 (to include those forward based) but I'm sure there are factors I'm not considering (and I'm excluding the economics of Plymouth).
 
For the same reason we don’t have 3 T45 in Guzz...
 
There's a certain delight to moving all of our submarines to Faslane, and leaving all our ASW capability in the South West. It's not like they want to train against each other occasionally.
 
I see Johny Mercer has ramped up his drumming for the T26 to be based solely in Guzz. @alfred_the_great I get building an ASW COE there, but does that necessarily mean all T26 have to be based there?

We've forward basing to consider, yard capacity, retention (not everyone enjoys the coastal road) and operationally why wouldn't you keep the FRS/TAPS at Portsmouth?

I certainly can't see an argument for T31 and T26 but I can see an argument to base 4+ T26 in Guzz, could be all 8 (to include those forward based) but I'm sure there are factors I'm not considering (and I'm excluding the economics of Plymouth).
What argument’s that exactly?
 
The argument (such as it is) goes along these lines.

1. Where possible it's a good idea to base all ships of one class in the same base port (log support, training, drafts etc). This btw is a purely economic argument, no consideration of dispersal etc.

2. The way the QEC and Carrier Strike are likely to be employed means that the RN will be deploying task groups of 1QE, plus 3-4 DD/FF - which in the new world will be all high-end ships like T26/T45, not T31.

3. Generating 4-5 ships concurrently from one base port is a disproportionate burden which may be best ameliorated by divvying up the base porting of high-end ships across two main bases (ie T45 in Pompey, T26 in Guzz).

Now it would be entirely possible to mix up the base porting (ie T45 and t26 at both bases), but that would conflict with the logic at 1, hence the current plan (3).
 
I can see all 8 26’s in Guzz making sense, but not splitting such a small fleet. If we’re going to have two types of frigate, then it makes sense for the Pompey/Guzz split to be one class at each.
 
No room at the Pompey inn for 2 x BFO carriers, 6 x T45 avd 8 x T26, 5 x T31 and all the OPVs.
T26 is much bigger than many seen to realise, its T45 size.,
 
Probably already widely known but saw this and thought it worth sharing.
"... Defence secretary Gavin Williamson reveals where the Royal Navy’s Type 26 frigates will be based....All eight of the state-of-the-art warships will be based at HMNB Devonport, in Plymouth, putting to bed hopes any of the new ships will call Portsmouth home...."

Defence secretary Gavin Williamson reveals where the Royal Navy’s Type 26 frigates will be based
The writing was on the wall for this last November. Currently the T23s are split between Portsmouth and Plymouth with tailed and non tailed vessels in each port. Last year it was announced that there would be base port changes to concentrate all the towed array T23s in Plymouth and the tailless ones in Portsmouth. This was seen as an indication the high end ASW capable T26s would go to Plymouth, and the T31s to Portsmouth.
 
Great news...although depressing that another commonwealth nation is getting more then the RN.

Regards,
MM
 
More details about the Canadian T-26 announcement can be found on the relevant RCN thread starting here: https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/t...f-the-royal-canadian-navy.241874/post-8861958

To summarize however, the T-26 has been selected but the contract award is subject to final negotiations. Formal award of the contract is scheduled for next spring. Construction will start at Irving Shipbuilding in Halifax in the early 2020s. The actual start date may be one of the items to be negotiated. Some news articles are giving a date of 2023, but the official announcement does not state a specific date and there has been serious discussion of moving the start date to sooner. The shipyard is currently building a class of Arctic OPVs, and plans are to try to slot the new frigates in as soon as possible after those are completed.

The thread linked above has a more detailed CBC news story than what the Ottawa Citizen is providing at this time, and the official government announcement can be found on that thread as well.

The T-26 was widely known to be the favoured candidate, so this announcement is no surprise. The FREMM effort was led by the Italians, and they had pulled out of the competition in a huff as they claimed the T-26 was being given an unfair advantage (in reality the Italians were making unreasonable demands that the rules be changed to favour them instead).

The French had late in the game combined their bid with the Italians and let the Italians run the show, effectively bowing out as an independent bid. This apparently was the result of a re-organization of their marketing efforts on a global basis.

The Danes with the Ivar Huitfeld had dropped out before the final stages, but I don't consider them to have had a realistic chance of winning anyway.

The other two bidders who remained until the end were Navantia with the F-105 and a ship based on the Dutch De Zeven Provinciën. If talks with the BAE consortium break down (BAE/Lockheed Martin), negotiations with the other bidders will resume.

There will be two variants, an air defence/command version, and an ASW/GP version. The air defence/command version will come first with three ships. Current plans are for a total of 15 ships, to be built at a rate of roughly one per year.

No information that I have seen has been released concerning with what weapons the ships will be outfitted with. The helicopters will be the new Sikorsky Cyclones which Canada has already bought (approved 5 years ago or more). The Cyclones have been a major headache, but they are a separate project from the frigates themselves.
 

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