Tyneside faces Shipbuilding Twighlight

#2
Don't forget to read the 'Comment' at the bottom of the page, Pork barrels at Swan'

Spears should be out over cash for votes at Swan

Tyneside faces shipbuilding twilight
In America, it would be called pork barrel politics. The money that has been poured into Swan Hunter from public funds seems to have achieved very little for securing the long-term future and expansion of that shipbuilding business and everything for making sure the nest of elite Labour MPs, whose constituencies are near the site, were safely re-elected last year.

The two logistics ships that Swan Hunter was supposed to deliver on behalf of taxpayers are now considered the Ministry of Defence's worst managed project. The taxpayer has certainly not got value for money from the escapade, but the Labour party probably has, thanks to the warm feeling that the £87m of state aid gave to the good burghers of the Tyneside constituencies who dutifully re-elected the likes of Tony Blair, Stephen Byers and David Miliband. We have had cash for peerages, now it's cash for votes.
 
#3
A lot of the investment was siphoned off from the Yard in the way that New labour does and certainly wasn't invested in equipment or infrastructure or the local economy. There is no mention of the years and years of under investment in Swan Hunters. Money was silently diverted elsewhere by the Government, this accelerated following the refusal of the North East people to accept Prescotts Regional Assembly. A local Labour politician implied (Or was that threatened?) at the time that without a regional assembly the shipyard would suffer then lo and behold, lost contracts and closure. Economic reality or plain spite?

The £87 m of State aid is a lie and pales into insignificance against the several hundred millions spent on the Scottish Yards and H&W. Swan Hunters itself has been starved of similar investment and the management issue is a smokescreen to hide the truth of a Scottish dominated governmnent destroying on of the few remaining English heavy industries in order to benefit their own constituencies.

You are correct about the cash for votes issue, but its not North East votes they are thinking about, they know they need the Scottish votes to cling on to power.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#4
It's not that complicated. Swann Hunter was unable to fulfil a contract. Pure and simple. It makes sense to seek out someone who could, particularly when that amount of money is involved. No point in getting 'racist' about it(again). Now I didn't see any denials on North East Tonight did you? Lots of blaming poor management but that's how it goes. The yard's Dutch owner wasn't available for comment. Silence. Speaks volumes doesn't it. It's a shame that anyone has to lose his job but the workforce know that thier management are at fault and that's exactly what came over in several of the interviews last night.

S & W went over budget and were twice over the agreed timescale and they still haven't finished the first boat. Votes have nothing to do with this. It's down to who can and who can't.
 
#5
Biscuits_AB said:
S & W went over budget and were twice over the agreed timescale and they still haven't finished the first boat. Votes have nothing to do with this. It's down to who can and who can't.
It's a ship! :evil:
 
#6
So what happened when SH built a ship when competeing for another contract? It was completed 2 years early and under budget?.... The contract still got awarded to H&W even though the ship they were building was late and over budget. It was following this farce that investment was slowly diverted from SH to other yards, its been the death of a thousand cuts as part of a deliberate policy to close the yards. For this government which has wasted counteless billions on dodgy defence contracts to then cite "Bad Management" as an excuse to forward its own agenda is hypocrisy of the worst sort.

Just another example of the tartan mafia looking after Caledonian interests at the expense of the English taxpayer once more... I'm not being racist Biscuits.. I leave that sort of thing to Scottish politicians awarding contracts to Scotland.

Still, it brings the day closer when we can bin Labour.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#7
the_matelot said:
Biscuits_AB said:
S & W went over budget and were twice over the agreed timescale and they still haven't finished the first boat. Votes have nothing to do with this. It's down to who can and who can't.
It's a ship! :evil:

Sorry :wink:
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#8
Warrior_Poet said:
So what happened when SH built a ship when competeing for another contract? It was completed 2 years early and under budget?.... The contract still got awarded to H&W even though the ship they were building was late and over budget. It was following this farce that investment was slowly diverted from SH to other yards, its been the death of a thousand cuts as part of a deliberate policy to close the yards. For this government which has wasted counteless billions on dodgy defence contracts to then cite "Bad Management" as an excuse to forward its own agenda is hypocrisy of the worst sort.

Just another example of the tartan mafia looking after Caledonian interests at the expense of the English taxpayer once more... I'm not being racist Biscuits.. I leave that sort of thing to Scottish politicians awarding contracts to Scotland.

Still, it brings the day closer when we can bin Labour.
You need to speak to someone mate, you are one angry little fella and it can't be good for you. I suspect that you didn't sleep to well last night. In fact I suspect that you don't sleep well at all. Stress isn't a funny thing and I believe that you need to sort it out before it sorts you out.

You cannot go through life hating everything and everybody, life's too short chum.

SH may have completed an earlier ship inside contract but that is irrelevant. We are talking about a current contract which they have failed to fulfil and are in fact way over the agreed time and cost. It's business. If you cannot fulfil the contract, then it is right and proper that the business be taken to someone who can and it is felt that the current contract would be better served on a better managed shipyard. The location of that shipyard is also irrelevant.

Put it to bed mate, go and see your GP, before he comes to see you.
 
#9
A very sad day for the North East :( . I remember seeing the current HMS Illustrious and Ark Royal being built at Swan Hunters when I was a kid. Swans did a rush job to finish Illustrious months ahead of schedule so she could relieve Invincible just after the Falklands War.
 
#10
Sad day for the whole bloody country...

One of many.

:(
 
#11
If its not jobs going to Scotland... they're off to France:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/5178076.stm

You are right about one thing Biscuits mate... I am angry, as are those that depend on the Yards for their livelihood... still I'm sure they'll find other work if they are willing to work for a pittance as a result of the flood of cheap labour coming in from Europe... All this from a party that was formed to look after the interest of the working classes.

Independence for England is no longer just politically desirable.... it is an economic neccesity. The Billions saved will pay for the relocation of the naval Shipyards back to England. No more contracts will go to foreign yards irrespective of EU directives.
 
#12
Yard GMB convenor Michael Blench described it as a "desperate day" for the yard and said there would be a lot of sadness and unhappiness when the men left on Friday.

He said: "The men have been upset for a number of weeks and we have known for a number of weeks this would probably happen. There has been a run down of labour for the last 18 months.

I quote: "There has been a run down of labour for the last 18 months."

Now why do you think that happened?
 
#13
Unions fear a skills gap could jeopardise a multi-billion pound defence order bound for the North East.
Swan Hunter shipyards on the Tyne and the Tees are set to work on a £2.9bn government aircraft carrier project.

But a start date for work has been put back until 2008, which trade union bosses say could result in skilled workers moving out of the region.

The firm's Tyneside yard has enough work until 2006 but its Teesside yard is already effectively mothballed.

In January 2003 the government announced BAE systems and French company Thales would build two new giant aircraft carriers.

Still blaming management or government policy?
 
#14
In the meantime:

Production of the second of six Type 45 warships has begun at BAE Systems' Govan shipyard in Glasgow.
First Sea Admiral Sir Alan West cut the first steel sheet for the HMS Dauntless warship which will safeguard 2,000 jobs at the Clyde yard.

He said it was "a momentous occasion" and an important step in producing the most advanced air destroyer fleet in the world.

The £5.5bn programme was ordered by the Ministry of Defence.
 
#15
Warrior_Poet said:
A

You are correct about the cash for votes issue, but its not North East votes they are thinking about, they know they need the Scottish votes to cling on to power.
No they don't. Even if we had an English only parliament Labour would still have a majority, albeit substantially reduced.
 

TheIronDuke

ADC
Book Reviewer
#16
I wonder if any Jolly Jack Tars would care to comment on the quality of the Type 42's knocked out by Swans? Room to swing a cat was there? Swans is on the Gvt. shite list because of the massive cost over runs on the Bay class dockers which is why they didnt get the carrier contract. I got mates in Wallsend and I feel for them, but dinosaurs die. End of.

And you want to see the plans (drawn up over a year now) for the marina, apartments and leisure facilities that will slot into the site. They're fab.
 
#17
Warrior_Poet said:
The £87 m of State aid is a lie and pales into insignificance against the several hundred millions spent on the Scottish Yards and H&W. Swan Hunters itself has been starved of similar investment and the management issue is a smokescreen to hide the truth of a Scottish dominated governmnent destroying on of the few remaining English heavy industries in order to benefit their own constituencies.
quote]

What pish have you ever walked up the Cylde were the docks were some of the worlds best ships were made there what now...nothing or shoeboxes called executive flats the British Steel plant at Ravenscraig has long since gone how many thousands lost their jobs in Glasgow when the yards shut one after another? get the chip off your shoulder yeas it's a sad state when one of the few remaining yards we havew left has gone to the wall just how long will it be before the UK will be able to produce a ship of any sorts? as a nation of engineering we are finished
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#18
TheIronDuke said:
I wonder if any Jolly Jack Tars would care to comment on the quality of the Type 42's knocked out by Swans? Room to swing a cat was there? Swans is on the Gvt. shite list because of the massive cost over runs on the Bay class dockers which is why they didnt get the carrier contract. I got mates in Wallsend and I feel for them, but dinosaurs die. End of.

And you want to see the plans (drawn up over a year now) for the marina, apartments and leisure facilities that will slot into the site. They're fab.
The Type 42 design wasn't Swans and they weren't all built there. The ships they have built in the past were pretty good quality. The problem is that there are too many UK yards for Navy work. The yard's failing because its not winning commercial work against multiple other foreign builders and using MOD contracts to blackmail the government for funds. Its not the MOD's job to keep yards open, its supposed to get ships built on time, on spec and on price. The whole yard issue is a farce. No one here's mentions Rosyth, which has been guaranteed work into the future. The neighbouring constituency MP - Gordon Broon
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
[quote="brettariderhow long will it be before the UK will be able to produce a ship of any sorts? as a nation of engineering we are finished[/quote]

Vospers, Yarrow and Barrow (now VT and BAE) do a pretty good job. The point with the Swan ships is that one of them was supposed to be first of class and ended up being second, because BAE built theirs on time. And, no, I don't work for them.
 
#20
Swans is famous for the high quality of its ships (Prior to deliberate underinvestment). The contracts have been awarded to Scotland on political not technical grounds, even the MOD has said the workmanship and craftsmanship of Swans was quality... The dice were loaded against us. Yet another example of Scottish politicians favouring their own constituencies over English ones.

As for the property developments on the Tyne... the links between the companies and the labour Party are a little too close for comfort. The smell of welding is being replaced by the fetid stench of corruption.

This corrupt regime knows it has lost England, its only hope of clinging on to power is by ensuring it holds onto its power base in Scotland.
 

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