Two soldiers refuse to fight.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Ord_Sgt, Mar 30, 2003.

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  1. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    Just heard on the BBC that two guys have been sent home for refusing to fight! A Pvt and an Air tech from 16 AA Bde. :mad:

    Courts Marshal and a stiff sentence to follow I would think.

    I thought our people were made of sterner stuff.
     
  2. That's a bit surprsing, are they experiencing some kind of break down/ depression or the like? ???
     
  3. Well Billy Bragg, that tosser to beat all tossers, was famous as a soldier who refused to soldier, and he was one of Blairs favourite singers/songwriters.

    Courts Martial all the way, doshonourable discharge after a few years Colchester.
     
  4. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    From the BBC.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2900963.stm

    Two soldiers sent home from Gulf war
    Two soldiers believed to be from 16 Air Assault Brigade serving in Iraq have been sent back to their headquarters in Essex.
    The two were flown back to Colchester from Kuwait before the war in Iraq started, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed.
    Their solicitor said they had been ordered to return after raising conscientious objections to the war, according to a lawyer who has been informed about the case.
    A military spokesman denied the two had been flown back to Britain for refusing to fight before the invasion of Iraq.
    A Ministry of Defence statement said it had "no record of anybody from 16 Air Assault Brigade returning on grounds of conscientiously objecting to the conflict in Iraq".
    The spokesman, who confirmed two soldiers had been sent home at the end of February, said there were many reasons why soldiers were sent back.
    These could be medical, compassionate or disciplinary grounds.
    A leading lawyer who acts on behalf of service personnel and their families said the soldiers' case was an unusual one.
    Justin Hugheston-Roberts works for Forces Law, a nationwide group of 22 law firms, which acts for service personnel.
    He has spoken to the solicitor acting for the soldiers.
    "The main issue is going to be the individual conviction of the service personnel over and above the requirement to obey a lawful command," he said.
    At Colchester Garrison on Sunday no-one would comment.
    There are 5,000 men and women from 16 Air Assault Brigade serving in southern Iraq near the city of Basra.
     
  5. At least they had the balls to come out and say that they were objectors. What would have happened if they hadn't had the moral courage to admit it and gone up North and let their mates down at a crucial moment.

    I respect them for their honesty but it wont save them from the witch hunt. Its the little pussy's that turn up from phase 2 and go sick with depression after a few months that I detest.
     
  6. why did they sign up to be soldiers in the first place  ??? soldiering involves war you know  :mad: not piss ups, subsidied holidays and camping trips
     
  7. I can't find any words to excuse thier actions.

    I wonder if they have refused to fight in this conflict alone or all conflicts. Post them to Kosova, have them licking mines by morning
     
  8. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    Is it true one is from the Army Air Corps?
     
  9. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    I'm not saying these two are TA but what do you reckon are the chances......?

    Not knowing enough about these two guys (age/rank/experience/regular or territorial) it's a little difficult to discuss BUT given the number of TA/RMR/RNR/RAuxAF we've mobilised and generally given that according to John Keegans 'The Face of Battle' the hardiest group of soldiers is the inf. section (actually the optimum size is 5 men) then if you are some inexperienced badly trained STAB mobilised by a computer in Scotland and you get posted to an already  formed unit then it will be difficult to start feeling the loyalties that say ORG feels they should be experiencing and that therefore their betrayal is less of a betrayal...

    Not sure I have a point here, but felt that this might have some interesting points for your arguments.

    Mr H
     
  10. msr

    msr LE

    Mr Happy,

    You don't  have a point here and I am sure many people would find your insinuation that these two soldiers are TA in very poor taste. :mad:

    On this occasion I would actually go so far as to suggest that you may like to retract your comments.

    msr
     
  11. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    MSR,

    It started out (my post) as a comment on how given the extra pressure TA guys will be under (lack of experience with leaving family/friends/being in green for more than two weeks etc) that if anyone were to crack then I would expect it to be more TA than reg.  

    However bcause of at least the heli-tech guy I would assume he's not TA at all.

    I think in my writing and re-writing I've got me text and purpose confused - will an apology from my English teacher suffice?
     
  12. msr

    msr LE

    Mr Happy,

    " I'm not saying these two are TA but what do you reckon are the chances......? "

    No more likely than if they were regular soldiers I would suggest.  

    " if you are some inexperienced badly trained STAB mobilised by a computer in Scotland"

    In my experience those who were mobilised were selected by their PSI for their trade skills in order to fill a deficiency in the Army's ORBAT.

    "and you get posted to an already  formed unit then it will be difficult to start feeling the loyalties that say ORG feels they should be experiencing"

    Again, in my experience the formed units that receive TA soldiers are generally very pleased precisely because an empty slot has been filled.  It is up to the receiving unit to ensure that the new bod is slotted in quickly and efficiently because their lives depend on that person doing their job correctly.

    "given the extra pressure TA guys will be under...  that if anyone were to crack then I would expect it to be more TA than reg"

    Doubtless we will have to wait for the PXRs to come through before the facts are known, but this could be construed as an offensive slur on the TA.

    msr