Is it just me, or would it be impossible for me to show how the:
US
UK
and
Irish governments built cast iron agreements into the good Friday deal, New Labour ’amnesties’ or US deals that said ‘no move forward at all’ or ‘no amnesty or no release from jail’ until the mysteries of the disappeared were evidenced and cleared up.
For me, the fact these things didn’t happen shows they didn’t happen :)
Jeez mate keep taking the pills
 

Slime

LE
Jeez mate keep taking the pills

Feel free to prove me wrong.
I‘d be more than happy if you posted up evidence that the disappeared cases have now all been solved, as would the families of the dead.

Its very simple, I’m saying the cases haven’t been solved, and weren’t a red line for any U.K., US or Irish agreement.........And the FACT they weren’t used is an example..........they weren’t used.

If I’m correct the cases aren’t all solved, and there is a good Friday agreement.

Feel free to post the cases are solved, or were a red line to any talks.......ergo there was never a good Friday agreement, and there were no amnesties from new Labour.

I won’t be holding my breath that you can show these things though :)
 
Yes, he got the best Justice money could buy.........................
Gerald Nabarrow walt.

British justice is wonderful.

If you can afford it.
 
Feel free to prove me wrong.
I‘d be more than happy if you posted up evidence that the disappeared cases have now all been solved, as would the families of the dead.
Those cases have been investigated to the full limits of the law and no admissable evidence has been discovered. A number of the PIRA involved are long since dead. What more do you suggest could be done, then or now?
Its very simple, I’m saying the cases haven’t been solved, and weren’t a red line for any U.K., US or Irish agreement.........
See above
weren’t a red line for any U.K., US or Irish agreement.........And the FACT they weren’t used is an example..........they weren’t used.
Sorry mate this is dribble, the aim of the Agreement was to stop the killing and violence, not to address a couple of unsolved murders. What do you mean Red Line
If I’m correct the cases aren’t all solved, and there is a good Friday agreement.
So what?
 
What are the numbers?
Some interesting facts and figures in this article

New figures reveal scale of unsolved killings from the Troubles
  • 53 legacy inquests with the Coroners Service (these cases relate to 94 deaths).
  • 27 legacy files actively being considered by the Attorney General’s office.
  • 165 historical matters currently under investigation by the Police Ombudsman’s office, where a further 258 such cases are pending.

LEGACY INVESTIGATION BRANCH

Of the 1,186 killings that the PSNI’s Legacy Investigation Branch is assessing:
  • 45.5% are attributed to republican paramilitaries.
  • 23% are attributed to loyalist paramilitaries.
  • 28.5% are attributed to the security forces.
  • For the remaining 3% of deaths, the background of those primarily responsible is unknown.
 
Can you back that up with hard facts as a number of thousands of terrorists passed through prisons.?

Moves by the Chief Constable, backed by the Government, to investigate through Cold Case Review the murders of the 1,800 civilians and 211 police officers which remain unsolved are warmly supported.


That doesn't include the murders of soldiers, most of which (off the top of my head about 400 or so of them) also remain unsolved.

Out of a total of roughly 3,500 murders that means about 2/3 of them are unsolved.
 
And why would that be?

We have already been over this, the number of murders outstripped resources available to investigate them in the level of detail needed to get convictions in a terrorism case.

Is there any particular reason you are going in circles with this? Is there a point you are trying to make?
 
Some interesting facts and figures in this article

New figures reveal scale of unsolved killings from the Troubles
  • 53 legacy inquests with the Coroners Service (these cases relate to 94 deaths).
  • 27 legacy files actively being considered by the Attorney General’s office.
  • 165 historical matters currently under investigation by the Police Ombudsman’s office, where a further 258 such cases are pending.

LEGACY INVESTIGATION BRANCH

Of the 1,186 killings that the PSNI’s Legacy Investigation Branch is assessing:
  • 45.5% are attributed to republican paramilitaries.
  • 23% are attributed to loyalist paramilitaries.
  • 28.5% are attributed to the security forces.
  • For the remaining 3% of deaths, the background of those primarily responsible is unknown.

I think the gap that leaves is all the other unsolved cases that are not being investigated, presumably because there is insufficient information with which to proceed.

It seems to me that for those cases it could be that the percentage attributable is much higher for the paramilitaries than for UK Forces because for those cases pertinent event information for UK forces killings was taken and is being used now, however for paramilitaries there are no such records to help.
 

Slime

LE
Those cases have been investigated to the full limits of the law and no admissable evidence has been discovered. A number of the PIRA involved are long since dead. What more do you suggest could be done, then or now?

See above

Sorry mate this is dribble, the aim of the Agreement was to stop the killing and violence, not to address a couple of unsolved murders. What do you mean Red Line

So what?

Thanks for backing up the point I’m making. :)
By the very words you typed about the Good Friday Agreement thats a good enough example of things not being done to the full.

Who would have thought that of all the posters here it would be you that gave an example to prove my point.

I’ll leave you alone now. It seems like you have shit loads of catching up to do on the troubles if you think the disappeared people were just a ‘couple of unsolved murders’

At least you called them murders :)
 
An unarmed bloke was shot, possibly in the back, possibly at short range, the fact he was a **** is irrelevant.
People on here seem happy that A and C dont have a case to answer not because they think that they are innocent, but because the evidence is inadmissible. Pawns in a game or people who may have done wrong?

Just 6 soldiers are going to court (4 if the charges against A and C have been dropped). Does that really sound like a Sinn Fein inspired witch hunt? That the "system" is against veterans? I reckon most people on here didnt know until quite recently just how few ex soldiers are going to court because the Daily Mail told them that hundreds were questioned.

Im all for people taking sides when its worth fighting for, but some of the frothy mob on here dont seem to care that if the soldiers really did murder innocent people on bloody Sunday that they shouldnt be held accountable because the IRA got away with it/Its a Sinn Fein stitch up/Its a long time ago etc etc.

Very few is any have said the people involved are innocent just that its an outrage.

Whatever anyone did or did not do is used by (some) others to fuel an agenda, this builds barriers rather than tearing them down and is part and parcel of warping perceptions, and I am of the mind that An Phoblacht, SF, DUP, DM, HMG etc. were/are all at the front of the queue when it comes to doing that. There is no concession towards openness and honesty.

We are where we are today because of the mindset of not listening, no give and take, the veneer of progress yet underneath no-one has changed. Intransigence and the determination by each of those entities to still be totally right and prove the others to be totally wrong is not helping, the movers and shakers are all viewed with suspicion and hostility each other, every word and action is to be countered out of hand.

Putting aside specific cases such as A and C for the moment, it is this reality that to me bodes ill for a better future in NI.
 
Thanks for backing up the point I’m making. :)
By the very words you typed about the Good Friday Agreement thats a good enough example of things not being done to the full.

Who would have thought that of all the posters here it would be you that gave an example to prove my point.

I’ll leave you alone now. It seems like you have shit loads of catching up to do on the troubles if you think the disappeared people were just a ‘couple of unsolved murders’

At least you called them murders :)
Boy you are deluded.
 

Slime

LE
As a carry on point about things not being investigated to the fullest extend.
We know New Labour handed out get out of jail free cards, so we know they missed a big trick there by simply ‘giving’, and not insisting that some info had to be given to the U.K. government first.

If amnesties were being handed out there should/could have been a higher price to pay for those amnesties.

Having listened to relatives of people who had family members who ‘were disappeared’ by PIRA I get the impression they would have preferred to know the location of their dead loved one, and to be able to get some form of closure even if no PIRA member was prosecuted.

Allow the disappeared to remain hidden, allowing no closure AND having amnesties was just a travesty imho.

After all, if someone was going to be given an amnesty what would they have to lose?

All of the above of course needs to be seen with the fact a Labour government was in power, and might not have been as averse to PIRA as other parties.
 
We have already been over this, the number of murders outstripped resources available to investigate them in the level of detail needed to get convictions in a terrorism case.

Is there any particular reason you are going in circles with this? Is there a point you are trying to make?
No, I just get fed up with the inferences that there is an anti security forces conspiracy and every soldier was a victim narrative. It is not just a case of resources, which were scarce in the early 1970s but upped with SIB and secondees from the mainland. The evidence simply wasn't there to be obtained in a huge number of cases As I am sure you are aware a large number of working class areas were hostile to the forces of law and order with a history of not cooperating with the police, in Republican areas it was even worse, with a population that was hostile and/or intimidated and a substantial number assisting the IRA.

The standout feature was the poor investigative techniques employed by RMP when dealing with soldiers.
 

Slime

LE
Boy you are deluded.

You make me laugh......
Have you worked out what a red line is yet?

If it helps, they have been talked about week after week in the MSM for over four years now, plus it’s also a phrase in common parlance.

The phase is also very often associated with negotiations.

Lets not complicate things yet by trying to work out how many is a ‘couple’ ;)
 
You make me laugh......
Have you worked out what a red line is yet?

If it helps, they have been talked about week after week in the MSM for over four years now, plus it’s also a phrase in common parlance.

The phase is also very often associated with negotiations.

Lets not complicate things yet by trying to work out how many is a ‘couple’ ;)
Your logic is infantile.
 
Some interesting facts and figures in this article

New figures reveal scale of unsolved killings from the Troubles
  • 53 legacy inquests with the Coroners Service (these cases relate to 94 deaths).
  • 27 legacy files actively being considered by the Attorney General’s office.
  • 165 historical matters currently under investigation by the Police Ombudsman’s office, where a further 258 such cases are pending.

LEGACY INVESTIGATION BRANCH


I would have thought that the IHAT fiasco would have taught you something ;) ;)
 
Whatever anyone did or did not do is used by (some) others to fuel an agenda, this builds barriers rather than tearing them down and is part and parcel of warping perceptions, and I am of the mind that An Phoblacht, SF, DUP, DM, HMG etc. were/are all at the front of the queue when it comes to doing that. There is no concession towards openness and honesty.

We are where we are today because of the mindset of not listening, no give and take, the veneer of progress yet underneath no-one has changed. Intransigence and the determination by each of those entities to still be totally right and prove the others to be totally wrong is not helping, the movers and shakers are all viewed with suspicion and hostility each other, every word and action is to be countered out of hand.

Putting aside specific cases such as A and C for the moment, it is this reality that to me bodes ill for a better future in NI.

None of that has anything to do with the fact that if a soldier has done something wrong then he should be held to account.
Of course Sinn Fein are going to want the state to answer, but just because Sinn Fein want answers, doesn't mean other people should be forgotten about, like the victims families.

We are where we are today because 40 odd years ago the state wasn't that interested in some of its citizens being killed by its forces.
 

Latest Threads

Top