Which is why they had a multi million pound enquiry by Saville and an apology from Cameron. Soldier F is still innocent until proved guilty though.
Which is why he might have his day in court.
 
Which is why he might have his day in court.
But its highly unlikely he will be giving evidence in the box as is his right. What evidence is there for the prosecution to prove their case beyond reasonable doubt? There is no forensic evidence like DNA. The rifles were given to the SL Army 20 years ago. No witnesses or CCTV/film evidence. No reconstruction of the scene directly after the event. The statements taken from the soldiers in 1972 are inadmissible as evidence as are anyting from the Saville enquiry.
 
But its highly unlikely he will be giving evidence in the box as is his right. What evidence is there for the prosecution to prove their case beyond reasonable doubt? There is no forensic evidence like DNA. The rifles were given to the SL Army 20 years ago. No witnesses or CCTV/film evidence. No reconstruction of the scene directly after the event. The statements taken from the soldiers in 1972 are inadmissible as evidence as are anyting from the Saville enquiry.

We will find out when it goes to court.
Its going to be a very quick day in court if the prosecution turns up with nothing.
 
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I agree with your premise that soldiers should not be above the law, but do you think these trials are fair?
The prosecution presented its evidence, the judge decreed that the evidence was insufficient and closed the case.

I don't think the soldiers have much to complain about when it comes to the fairness of the judiciary in regard to the trial, many people charged with murder would be delighted with such a result.

The trial would not appear to be the problem, the standards of evidence gathering and police investigation of very serious prima facie crimes that appear to have been committed in the United Kingdom on the other hand do seem to be extremely questionable.
 

ACAB

LE
The prosecution presented its evidence, the judge decreed that the evidence was insufficient and closed the case.

I don't think the soldiers have much to complain about when it comes to the fairness of the judiciary in regard to the trial, many people charged with murder would be delighted with such a result.

The trial would not appear to be the problem, the standards of evidence gathering and police investigation of very serious prima facie crimes that appear to have been committed in the United Kingdom on the other hand do seem to be extremely questionable.
Says an Irish Nationalist........

Don't bother denying it, you have "form" as they say.
 
The trial would not appear to be the problem, the standards of evidence gathering and police investigation of very serious prima facie crimes that appear to have been committed in the United Kingdom on the other hand do seem to be extremely questionable.
And of course that is always going to be straightforward after an interval of almost fifty years.
 
And of course that is always going to be straightforward after an interval of almost fifty years.
No it isn't, that's why the trials have collapsed, but no one can complain about the unfairness of the legal process for those charged.

The families of victims who never had the crimes against their loved ones properly investigated by police at the time on the other hand might be feeling a little aggrieved, but I suppose in the greater scheme of things they don't count.

It's done, it's over. There will be no more trials, the Daily Mail and Johnny Mercer can stop grandstanding now, that dark night of the so-called persecution of the Banner veterans is now over (if it ever existed), we can move on.
 
The families of victims who never had the crimes against their loved ones properly investigated by police at the time on the other hand might be feeling a little aggrieved, but I suppose in the greater scheme of things they don't count.
Well you could say the same about all the soldiers, policemen and innocent civilians murdered by the IRA and all its offshoots.
 
Well you could say the same about all the soldiers, policemen and innocent civilians murdered by the IRA and all its offshoots.
Er no, those crimes were investigated to the fullest extent that was possible, the police were after the men who committed those murders, big time.

Thousands of terrorists were arrested, charged and sentenced to very long terms in prison.
 

Slime

LE
Er no, those crimes were investigated to the fullest extent that was possible, the police were after the men who committed those murders, big time.

Thousands of terrorists were arrested, charged and sentenced to very long terms in prison.

Err, yes.

A large amount of those crimes committed or suspected to have been committed by PIRA weren't investigated to the fullest, either at the time or later.

But you would know that.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Er no, those crimes were investigated to the fullest extent that was possible, the police were after the men who committed those murders, big time.

Thousands of terrorists were arrested, charged and sentenced to very long terms in prison.
Then released before serving their sentences.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
The prosecution presented its evidence, the judge decreed that the evidence was insufficient and closed the case.

I don't think the soldiers have much to complain about when it comes to the fairness of the judiciary in regard to the trial, many people charged with murder would be delighted with such a result.

The trial would not appear to be the problem, the standards of evidence gathering and police investigation of very serious prima facie crimes that appear to have been committed in the United Kingdom on the other hand do seem to be extremely questionable.
What happened is we have a judge who is brave enough to tell the prosecuting service in NI something that they must have known from the outset - the evidence is inadmissible.

Now this took either courage from the judge or a wink from the "Mandarins" to him to change the prosecution policy!

Still, it will give the IRA and supporting nationalists more chances to display their "victimhood" !
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
@stacker1 , it's unedifying (yet unsurprising) to see the Provo-loving troll @Mike Barton supporting you in your flailing on this thread. Think on that.
 
@stacker1 , it's unedifying (yet unsurprising) to see the Provo-loving troll @Mike Barton supporting you in your flailing on this thread. Think on that.

Why?
If he switches to fully supporting soldier F, will you change your opinion?
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
You have the support of an enemy of the Crown. I don't plan to get sucked into one of the angry little arguments which seem to excite you so this is my last post to you on this particular point, but your childish, contrarian game has put you beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned. You now fall into the same category as @Mike Barton , someone whose posts should be ignored or derided as it can be assumed you are both no friend of the nation or the Army.
 
Awwwwww ex soldiers are having to account for their actions.

It's an outrage.

To me the problem is a wider one and A and C being are the pawns in the game.

If anything has been missing in NI it is a process of justice underpinned by objectivity and all we see is partisan driven vengeance and revenge mentality at play. Since the GFA there seems to have been little appetite all round for a kind of truth and reconciliation approach which is sorely needed (we can't go on like this for decade after decade, century after century), it is the troubles continued but less by arms and more by legal means.

Of course those and their families who were affected by violence will not be able to easily take such a detached view, progress has to start with the authorities setting the tone and agenda which seems even less visible now than it has been (and Brexit has hardly helped either) where we see SF and the DUP in some sort of conflict. They (and others) seem only to willing to use the pain of others for their own continuing causes. It is not surprising then that we see a "taking sides" mentality when it comes to these kinds of cases, the all round views being that the "other" side is still the enemy, not ideal but human nature being what is is, tribality is a fact.
 
You have the support of an enemy of the Crown. I don't plan to get sucked into one of the angry little arguments which seem to excite you so this is my last post to you on this particular point, but your childish, contrarian game has put you beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned. You now fall into the same category as @Mike Barton , someone whose posts should be ignored or derided as it can be assumed you are both no friend of the nation or the Army.

I like animals, so did Hitler, I must be a Nazi.

Its childish and contrarian to point out that the British state killed 13 British subjects under dubious circumstances? And that if a a crime has been committed by a a British soldier he should be held accountable for it, regardless of whatever else happens?

The new meaning of childish and contrarian appears to be not going along with the mob in thinking that all veterans are bally heroes.

If your relatives have been killed by British soldiers and you thought that those relatives had nothing to do with terrorism would you want answers? Remembering, of course that if you answer yes, you will be just like Sinn Fein.
 
To me the problem is a wider one and A and C being are the pawns in the game.

If anything has been missing in NI it is a process of justice underpinned by objectivity and all we see is partisan driven vengeance and revenge mentality at play. Since the GFA there seems to have been little appetite all round for a kind of truth and reconciliation approach which is sorely needed (we can't go on like this for decade after decade, century after century), it is the troubles continued but less by arms and more by legal means.

Of course those and their families who were affected by violence will not be able to easily take such a detached view, progress has to start with the authorities setting the tone and agenda which seems even less visible now than it has been (and Brexit has hardly helped either) where we see SF and the DUP in some sort of conflict. They (and others) seem only to willing to use the pain of others for their own continuing causes. It is not surprising then that we see a "taking sides" mentality when it comes to these kinds of cases, the all round views being that the "other" side is still the enemy, not ideal but human nature being what is is, tribality is a fact.

An unarmed bloke was shot, possibly in the back, possibly at short range, the fact he was a **** is irrelevant.
People on here seem happy that A and C dont have a case to answer not because they think that they are innocent, but because the evidence is inadmissible. Pawns in a game or people who may have done wrong?

Just 6 soldiers are going to court (4 if the charges against A and C have been dropped). Does that really sound like a Sinn Fein inspired witch hunt? That the "system" is against veterans? I reckon most people on here didnt know until quite recently just how few ex soldiers are going to court because the Daily Mail told them that hundreds were questioned.

Im all for people taking sides when its worth fighting for, but some of the frothy mob on here dont seem to care that if the soldiers really did murder innocent people on bloody Sunday that they shouldnt be held accountable because the IRA got away with it/Its a Sinn Fein stitch up/Its a long time ago etc etc.

Very few is any have said the people involved are innocent just that its an outrage.
 
Er no, those crimes were investigated to the fullest extent that was possible, the police were after the men who committed those murders, big time.

Thousands of terrorists were arrested, charged and sentenced to very long terms in prison.

The number of families who have never had justice for loved ones murdered by terrorists outnumber those whose loved ones were killed by the security forces in disputed circumstances by about 100 to 1.
 

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