Could that possibly be because the IRA tried (with a few exceptions) not to kill ROI citizens?
Ooooooh I wonder :rolleyes: , now hang on, I wonder why that would be. Could it be that there we’ren’t any British Soldiers (officially) in the ROI and that Irish Government would have been mightily pissed Orr if the IRA started scoring home runs?
dont know if anyone told you this, but the loyalists didnt really want the south to rejoin the north.
no :eek:. But the ROI mightily want the North
You still have not explained why if the Irish Government supported a statute of limitations, that it would show that they supported the IRA.
wouldn’t be anything to do with plausible deniability would it. I mean not to would be a tacit admission wouldn’t it? ;)
 
Ooooooh I wonder :rolleyes: , now hang on, I wonder why that would be. Could it be that there we’ren’t any British Soldiers (officially) in the ROI and that Irish Government would have been mightily pissed Orr if the IRA started scoring home runs?

no :eek:. But the ROI mightily want the North

wouldn’t be anything to do with plausible deniability would it. I mean not to would be a tacit admission wouldn’t it? ;)

As the IRA weren't complaining about the Irish in Ireland, they weren't likely to have a massive bombing campaign there were they?

You sound like the type of person that believes covid jabs include a microchip.
 
Police find new forensic evidence in case of farmer murdered by the IRA.

An article in today's Guardian suggesting that this case may undermine the Governments plans for an amnesty. I can't see why as the victim was an ROI citizen tortured and murdered in Co Louth in the Republic by the IRA on suspicion of being an informer for the Garda. His body was dumped just over the border near Beellek in South Armagh.

Therefore it is a muder which happened in the jurisdiction of the Republic of Ireland and can be investigated by the Garda as a cold case file with the new forensic evidence and has nothing to do with any proposed amnesty or statue of limitations.
 
They were used at MacGilligan (where they disgraced themselves by obscene ill-discipline and gross over-reaction) for the same reason, they were the only spare battalion in the Province at the time, I think it was only one company of them though.
All of this is covered in Saville which is one of the reasons I admire it so much, the sheer amount of detail he went to to investigate every single aspect of Bloody Sunday, demolishing numerous republican myths and lies in the process. To be fair he did the same as regards most of the rubbish talked about by squaddies too.
I believe Ted Loden was completely exonerated of any blame by Saville by the way.
I agree that Saville does a superb forensic job of disposing of the froth and myth of both sides. It's a very accessible document and methodically clarifies what at first sight appears to be a scene of great confusion and chaos into very comprehensible segments using the huge wealth of information that was available at the time and subsequently.

I take aboard what you say about there being no particular significance to the deployment of the Paras on the day, as they were (with the exception of the Borderers who had only arrived a week or two earlier) the only available unit at that time. But I would suggest that this might be looking down the telescope through the wrong end. It implies that there was some urgent business that needed dealt with and for better or worse the Paras were all that was to hand.

However, that was not the case, there was no crisis brewing in Derry that needed sudden action. If no arrest operation had been carried out that day, Sunday January 30th 1972 would have been utterly forgotten. A big march would have taken place, Bernadette Devlin, Eamonn McCann and Fenner Brockway would have harangued the crowd at Free Derry Corner about how the 70s would be socialist and how fraternal solidarity among the proletariat would solve all of Ireland's problems, and if they were lucky they might get a paragraph or two at the bottom of page six in Monday's Guardian.

It strikes me as more likely to have been the case that the happy coincidence of a huge banned march in Derry (with the inevitable rioting) and the availability of the Paras gave Gen. Ford the opportunity he had clearly been looking for to deal with the problem of the "hooligan element" in Derry. He grasped the opportunity with both hands and made sure he was there in person to see it play out. When it all went pear-shaped he was happy to step aside and allow the ordure to fall on the head of the friendless Col. Wilford.

It is ironic that Wilford would end up becoming the designated Aunt Sally.
 
I agree that Saville does a superb forensic job of disposing of the froth and myth of both sides. It's a very accessible document and methodically clarifies what at first sight appears to be a scene of great confusion and chaos into very comprehensible segments using the huge wealth of information that was available at the time and subsequently.

I take aboard what you say about there being no particular significance to the deployment of the Paras on the day, as they were (with the exception of the Borderers who had only arrived a week or two earlier) the only available unit at that time. But I would suggest that this might be looking down the telescope through the wrong end. It implies that there was some urgent business that needed dealt with and for better or worse the Paras were all that was to hand.

However, that was not the case, there was no crisis brewing in Derry that needed sudden action. If no arrest operation had been carried out that day, Sunday January 30th 1972 would have been utterly forgotten. A big march would have taken place, Bernadette Devlin, Eamonn McCann and Fenner Brockway would have harangued the crowd at Free Derry Corner about how the 70s would be socialist and how fraternal solidarity among the proletariat would solve all of Ireland's problems, and if they were lucky they might get a paragraph or two at the bottom of page six in Monday's Guardian.

It strikes me as more likely to have been the case that the happy coincidence of a huge banned march in Derry (with the inevitable rioting) and the availability of the Paras gave Gen. Ford the opportunity he had clearly been looking for to deal with the problem of the "hooligan element" in Derry. He grasped the opportunity with both hands and made sure he was there in person to see it play out. When it all went pear-shaped he was happy to step aside and allow the ordure to fall on the head of the friendless Col. Wilford.

It is ironic that Wilford would end up becoming the designated Aunt Sally.
You should know by now - Sh!t flows downhill. IIRC, the Borderers were province reserve and had been there a while. Also on the ground that day were 1 R. Anglian, 2 Royal Greenjackets and 16 Light Air Defence - more than enough to deal with any potential troublemakers. What I do know was that the situation in Londonderry had been deteriorating for a good while and it was probably felt that the local laddos needed a lesson.
 
You should know by now - Sh!t flows downhill. IIRC, the Borderers were province reserve and had been there a while. Also on the ground that day were 1 R. Anglian, 2 Royal Greenjackets and 16 Light Air Defence - more than enough to deal with any potential troublemakers. What I do know was that the situation in Londonderry had been deteriorating for a good while and it was probably felt that the local laddos needed a lesson.
Precisely my point about Ford's thinking.
 
Police find new forensic evidence in case of farmer murdered by the IRA.

An article in today's Guardian suggesting that this case may undermine the Governments plans for an amnesty. I can't see why as the victim was an ROI citizen tortured and murdered in Co Louth in the Republic by the IRA on suspicion of being an informer for the Garda. His body was dumped just over the border near Beellek in South Armagh.

Therefore it is a muder which happened in the jurisdiction of the Republic of Ireland and can be investigated by the Garda as a cold case file with the new forensic evidence and has nothing to do with any proposed amnesty or statue of limitations.
There's an article in today's The Australian (paywalled) saying that a suspect is being sought in Australia. I'll try and find a mention elsewhere.

E2A: Australian Daily Telegraph also paywalled ( same stable as The Oz) but it is now mentioned on the BBC online NI.

Snipped from The Oz:

British police investigating one of the most infamous abductions, tortures and murders carried out during The Troubles in Northern Ireland have switched their focus to Australia, with at least one man described as being “key” to the execution of farmer Tom Oliver being sought here.​
It can be revealed the man’s identity and file have been passed to the NSW Police Counter Terrorism unit as they attempt to locate him from various addresses along the east coast including in Victoria, NSW and up to Queensland.​
Police are refusing to detail his role but describe him as someone who was now key to unravelling a 30-year-old high-profile murder.​
The man has been living in Australia for years, ironically among the Northern Irish and Irish Republic diaspora – many of whom had fled the conflict for a better life here.​
It is understood more than one ex-pat here is now being sought for assistance with the murder of Oliver.​
 
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There's an article in today's The Australian (paywalled) saying that a suspect is being sought in Australia. I'll try and find a mention elsewhere.

E2A: Australian Daily Telegraph also paywalled ( same stable as The Oz) but it is now mentioned on the BBC online NI.

Snipped from The Oz:

British police investigating one of the most infamous abductions, tortures and murders carried out during The Troubles in Northern Ireland have switched their focus to Australia, with at least one man described as being “key” to the execution of farmer Tom Oliver being sought here.​
It can be revealed the man’s identity and file have been passed to the NSW Police Counter Terrorism unit as they attempt to locate him from various addresses along the east coast including in Victoria, NSW and up to Queensland.​
Police are refusing to detail his role but describe him as someone who was now key to unravelling a 30-year-old high-profile murder.​
The man has been living in Australia for years, ironically among the Northern Irish and Irish Republic diaspora – many of whom had fled the conflict for a better life here.​
It is understood more than one ex-pat here is now being sought for assistance with the murder of Oliver.​
I wonder who would extradite him? The ROI or the UK? As it happened in the ROI and the victim is one of their citizens then surely it is down to them?
 
I wonder who would extradite him? The ROI or the UK? As it happened in the ROI and the victim is one of their citizens then surely it is down to them?
Quite a usual protocol the the force whose area has the body investigates. I don't know how that works across national borders though.
 
Being more of a nautical cove, Im not really up to speed on Army formations. But I always thought a Sp Coy consisted of Chefs, Clerks, fat blanket stackers, and various other odds ,sods and bottle washers. Imagine the carnage if it had been A B or C Coys.
Chefs, Clerks, Storeman, MT always used to be HQ Coy.

Support Coy was Heavy MG, Mortars, A/Tk
 
Chefs, Clerks, Storeman, MT always used to be HQ Coy.

Support Coy was Heavy MG, Mortars, A/Tk
Evolutions over time.

When I were a lad, we had HQ Coy, Admin Coy, Sp Coy, and the Rifle Coys.

Somewhen along the line. IIRC, HQ and Admin coys became Command Coy, which included Recce Pl, but not Hy Wpns - Support Coy for them.

Later still, Recce Pl returned to (the renamed) Fire Support Coy

It may well have morphed again, more than once
 
Evolutions over time.

When I were a lad, we had HQ Coy, Admin Coy, Sp Coy, and the Rifle Coys.

Somewhen along the line. IIRC, HQ and Admin coys became Command Coy, which included Recce Pl, but not Hy Wpns - Support Coy for them.

Later still, Recce Pl returned to (the renamed) Fire Support Coy

It may well have morphed again, more than once
W, X, Y, Z, HQ for us. W was fire support including Recce Plt. The Drums, being SF and all that, flitted between HQ and W. Funny old world.
 
W, X, Y, Z, HQ for us. W was fire support including Recce Plt. The Drums, being SF and all that, flitted between HQ and W. Funny old world.

Ditto

Support Coy made up of Mors, A/Tk and Recce

P&D's, although being the SF platoon, came under HQ Coy ( mostly ) as they were always away touring, often around the world.
 
Ditto

Support Coy made up of Mors, A/Tk and Recce

P&D's, although being the SF platoon, came under HQ Coy ( mostly ) as they were always away touring, often around the world.
Weren't the Pipes and Drums/Bugles and Drums the Defence platoon in some battalions at some time in history - seventies/early eighties?
 
Weren't the Pipes and Drums/Bugles and Drums the Defence platoon in some battalions at some time in history - seventies/early eighties?

Possibly

I think it would be fair to say that across many threads on this forum - It is very apparent that different Battalions done different things.
 
Groups up in arms over the Governments blanket amnesty plans

The blistering critique came in a joint study by legal experts at Queen’s University Belfast and a Belfast-based advocacy group, the Committee on the Administration of Justice (CAJ).


IMO - If a line is to be drawn under the whole thing, only a blanket amnesty will suffice.

Although this will never satisfied some - Especially those feeding at the teat of Public money.
 

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