Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Gust.Avrakotos, Nov 9, 2008.
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Any details on the sub type?
Not that I have seen, must be either a new build or something that has just had a resit given it had dock works on-board during its sea trial phase.
Another sad tail, bet Russian sailors sleep sound in their bunks :S
There is no official information yet, but papers speculate that it was Akula.
If the papers are right, I have a feeling it was the new one they were testing before they transfered it to India.
Yea, seems like it was the Akula-II class sub Nerpa, one of the ones which is to be leased to India, no official statements on that yet though.
They know how it started though:
I want to know what gas they were using on that boat, and more importantly why they are using a gas that can kill in an enclosed space (I have read they had Freon gas, but could be wrong)?!
I happen to work for a fire company atm and there are many forms of gas that would have saved these menâs lives and been just as effective at fighting any form of fire.
It was freon.
Why is this stuff being used on a piece of kit worth hundreds of millions? I can run downstairs and get some none lethal gas that's none explosive and none corrosive, itâs freely available and cheap as chips!
Tell me we donât use Freon on out subs? Pretty please!
Is there a breathable gas that can be used to suppress fires - I thought the idea was to remove all oxygen and create a positive pressure of neutral non-combustable gas in the enclosed area?
I have worked on projects where argon was used to do this - but there were safety mechanisms in place to protect individuals caught in such an environment.
There are quite a few gases that are safe to use even in habitable areas.
I am not an expert in this area, but the company I work for manufactures the stuff and I have sat in on a few meetings where they have talked about the stuff.
The way it has been explained to me is, (these numbers are off but give the you the idea) you only need 40% of the oxygen in the air to be able to breath, a fire needs 60%, so they use a gas that removes 50% of the oxygen.
The fire goes out, but you will live, although it is very uncomfortable.
Indeed the gas would have to exclude oxygen to put the fire out, I can't see how a non toxic gas could work unless it lowered temperature considerably and that could be equally dangerous to life.
Edited: Sorry, was posting at same time as you. Thanks for the heads up.
For the life or me, I can't understand why they would use Freon. I assume that they are referring to R12, and not using 'Freon' as a generic term for refrigerant gas. R12, when exposed to high enough temperatures (as found at the tip of a cigarette, for example) produces toxic gases including phosgene, the dangers of which I am sure most people will be aware. As Gust says, there are other ways, and my fish-head friends tell me that they use a water-fog system which can be used safely with people in the compartment.
Even in the RN, ships and boats have fixed fire-fighting systems which use halon or CO2 drench systems to fight fire- usually in large / sensitive compartments where putting a fire out fast is the priority.
A fire on a submarine is very, very bad news indeed and it has to be fought aggressively. The fewer people you have on board / the lower the standard of their training, then the greater your need for fixed systems.
Poor training and / or maintenance may well have been an issue here. 19 sailors have lost their lives.
Boats are dangerous. That's why submariners get extra pay.
Edited for me being a twat !
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