Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by PartTimePongo, Aug 16, 2005.
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Well thank fcuk for that!
just when i was beginning to think T.V had sunk to its lowest ebb, with big brother freakshow, celebrity this, celebrity that, along comes a serious (hopefully entirely factual) documentary
just hope its as interesting as it sounds
ooh, and where eagles dare is on, 23:05 hrs BBC1
It wasn't bad at all was it?
"We was told "You are crossing the Rhine, and your minds will be on rape, pillage and looting . There is to be no rape"
And the German Crown Jewels going missing at the hands of some enterprising British squaddies and never found, despite the intervention of GeorgeVI?
The piece on the Volkwagen was good, as was the ironic part about the Jewish lady that had escaped the camps, moved to Czechoslovakia then back to Germany as she didn't feel safe in Czech.
Wish they'd spent more time on the Airlift though , and I'd no idea Raymond Baxter had helped start BFBS in Germany.
I'd have liked to see more about Die Luftbrucke as well - the monument in Berlin is well worth a visit.
Having said that, it was a really good effort all round - any one of the issues the programme touched on would have filled a 90 minute programme.
Thanks for the tip, PTP. I'll be watching the next segment in a week's time with great interest.
It was very interesting, an often over looked time in history! well done BBC 2
If you're referring to the "LuftbrÃ¼cke" just outside Tempelhof Airport, it's euphemistically called "Die Hungerharke" (the claw of hunger) by the Krauts and none of them gives a shite about it.
Apart from that, it's just a block of concrete. So why's it worth a visit (in contrast to all the pukka aircraft hanging from the ceiling in the airport itself)? Biggles calling!
Good tip off there PtP.
Television worth watching for a change.
Because it commemorates a key moment in the history of Berlin.
Thanks for coming.
Hope they end up showing this on BBC Prime or discovery. The period of '45-'47 is fascinating and poorly covered in mainstream history books.
Here's one little tidbit i know of. When the war ended in Norway the British employed some Luftwaffe sigint types for eavesdropping on the Russkis as they'd been at it for years.
A very good programme.
They could have made more of the differences between the behaviour of British and US forces, compared with that of the Russians. Anthony Beevor's Berlin - The Downfall makes clear the desperation of the German forces to surrender to the men of the West rather than the (justifiably) enraged Commies, and also the staggering number of rapes (not justifiable at all) inflicted by the Russians.
Samuel West's narration made me want to slit my wrists, though. Almost as morose as in The Nazis - A Warning From History. I say: redub it with the voice of Marvin the Paranoid Android for a significant increase in jauntiness.
No Bugsy , Darth is referring to the Airbridge to feed Berlin after the blockade. The greatest single Airlift in history , that made D-Day , Arnhem and the Rhine crossing pale by comparison. The RAF part can be found under "Operation Plainfare"
Last night the commentator said "At the height , there was an aircraft movement every minute" He must have been talking about night movements. At the height, and this from talking to aircrew who flew the Avro York, the movement was nearer 30-45 seconds, as soon as an aircraft touched down and urned off the runway , another was already thundering down it. Sunderlands were flying into Lake Havel with coal and salt and other staples and this level of effort was maintained for a very long time. It was good of the commentator (Or was it Baxter?) to note that the German ground handlers worked like Trojans to turn aircraft around.
The rape passage was important, as it seemed to bear out Beevor. The German lady was particular about pointing out the Frontski were meticulous about the way they treated them, it was the 2nd/3rd line that started raping as far as she was concerned.
I especially liked the old boy who unashamedly remarked on the looting. How would Antiques Roadshow have ever started if we hadn't helped ourselves to *cough* compensatory items. Some took items of monetary value, some took documents and tapes of historical significance, and other such items that aren't worth a lot, but hey , nice to listen to and read , but I'm not going to put your Granchildren through Uni on that am I?
Agree on the Samuel West commentary though , but Burton and Olivier are sadly no longer with us
PTP - without wishing to derail this thread, but my Father was posted to Berlin throughout the 80s and as a consequence had to shmooze the local German hierarchy types. One of these old boys worked at Tempelhof and he recalled crashed planes being bulldozed off the runways - whilst on fire on occasion - as the next plane was incoming.
My Grandfather was a Major in the control commission as his penultimate posting before he left the Army Darth, lots of stories but no loot , hey-ho
That's pretty much how the WWII militaria thing started. On other forums i've heard of cases where a family or collector would return items stolen from German soldiers. Also of collectors refusing to publically put a name to certain things for fear of the original owners finding out.
Separate names with a comma.