Army Rumour Service

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Turnkeys, gaolers, prison officers and screws

best bit of rehab tried out anywhere was the three strikes system in some states of the USA, concentrated their minds not to get caught more than once but if they were stupid enough to continue offending they were stuck somewhere safe for the public at large, i believe it did wonders for crime rates in new york
Many moons ago i did a quick check of some miscreants record (kindly reproduced in the paper).

IIRC he'd been convicted of 26 crimes for which he'd been given sentences ranging between 6 months and 5 years, he was barely in his late 20's and his sentences had obviously been cut short or served concurrently.

One. I'd ban concurrent sentencing. It makes no sense. one day is worth one day.

Two. Introduce a system where for each conviction you get a multiplier. ie x1 on first conviction. x2 on second, x3 and so on.

Three. Introduce a system where any time cut on the previous sentence is suspended and reimposed on conviction for next offence.

So. Imagine a miscreant. Commits an offence and gets 12 months. They are let out at 6 for good behavior. Commits a second offence. They are returned to nick and and commence the six months that they were let off. And then start their second sentence (lets say another 12monther) but, and here's the kicker, it's now 24 months as it is there second offence, for parole purposes it counts as a 24 month sentence.

I think I worked out a system like that would have meant the prat mentioned above would have been dead long before his 13th conviction was served.
 

neil82

Old-Salt
I'd hope we could turn them around prior to the 'multiple conviction' bit.

But yes. If non-threatening put on a curfew (ie in their house between the timings usually associated with nocturnal spontaneous visitations), they can pick up litter or similar nugatory work for the community, and they can continue working/looking for a job/training for when they have a little bit more free time.
people with your outlook in places of influence are the reason why criminals keep offending to the point where having 20 convictions is not unusual today, as has been said concurrent sentencing is stupid and some sort of multiplier should be used for repeat offenders, if the prisons are full just build another, it must cost society a hell of a lot more to keep them out of prison
 
I'd hope we could turn them around prior to the 'multiple conviction' bit.

But yes. If non-threatening put on a curfew (ie in their house between the timings usually associated with nocturnal spontaneous visitations), they can pick up litter or similar nugatory work for the community, and they can continue working/looking for a job/training for when they have a little bit more free time.
You have no experience of what these career criminals are like do you? On the job training for these guys would be your community work, scouting areas for future targets whilst using the opportunity to learn new skills to help them in their career.

And yes they are like that, most of them live a nocturnal life so the only way they could look for a new job is online during the time they'd be sleeping off their nocturnal activities.
 
The problem with the three strikes system is that it soon fills up the jails with bottom feeders but the top scum don't get caught, so the people doing the most damage continue to get away with it.
 
Many moons ago i did a quick check of some miscreants record (kindly reproduced in the paper).

IIRC he'd been convicted of 26 crimes for which he'd been given sentences ranging between 6 months and 5 years, he was barely in his late 20's and his sentences had obviously been cut short or served concurrently.

One. I'd ban concurrent sentencing. It makes no sense. one day is worth one day.

Two. Introduce a system where for each conviction you get a multiplier. ie x1 on first conviction. x2 on second, x3 and so on.

Three. Introduce a system where any time cut on the previous sentence is suspended and reimposed on conviction for next offence.

So. Imagine a miscreant. Commits an offence and gets 12 months. They are let out at 6 for good behavior. Commits a second offence. They are returned to nick and and commence the six months that they were let off. And then start their second sentence (lets say another 12monther) but, and here's the kicker, it's now 24 months as it is there second offence, for parole purposes it counts as a 24 month sentence.

I think I worked out a system like that would have meant the prat mentioned above would have been dead long before his 13th conviction was served.
I thought that when they are released at the half way point of their sentence, it is on licence, and if they reoffend during that period and are convicted, they serve the time on licence in addition to any new sentence?
 
You have no experience of what these career criminals are like do you? On the job training for these guys would be your community work, scouting areas for future targets whilst using the opportunity to learn new skills to help them in their career.

And yes they are like that, most of them live a nocturnal life so the only way they could look for a new job is online during the time they'd be sleeping off their nocturnal activities.
Make sure that it is backed up by a big stick.

Ie all those on curfew and community work are on suspended sentences which can be used if required.

They can live whatever life they wish, but if they are not where they are supposed to be, when they are supposed to be there, sober and drug free... a couple of weeks in nick beckons to put them on the straight and narrow.
 
I thought that when they are released at the half way point of their sentence, it is on licence, and if they reoffend during that period and are convicted, they serve the time on licence in addition to any new sentence?
I'd suggest the period should never end.

If they reoffend then they weren't reformed and therefore their good behaviour is null an dvoid.
 
It's been 5 years since l left hmp (Leicester) still suffer the nightmares, anxiety, I can still rememberthe fear of going through the gate in the morning, & general feeling of failure but know I didn't, have tried to come off the meds a couple of times but not the right time.
I get very angry with all the leftist/liberal crap quoted about how to turn prisons around & rehabilitate criminals, it doesn't work, never has & never will, the only thing that works & gives the law abiding public a chance of a happy life is to lock up career criminals for good or at least a very long time, sadly this will mean a massive spend of taxpayers money to build new prisons & staff them with suitably experienced & trained people, lots of them.
What has gone before has NOT WORKED,
I sincerely hope that SMT wake up & realise the damage they have done over the years, I am sick & tired of hearing of yet another friend/colleague having a breakdown or ending there own life, THIS is the reality of what is still happening today in Britains prisons. It broke me, it damn near killed me, please don't let it happen to anyone else because prison officers & there families are too bloody valuable to lose. End of rant, time for a shot of pàlinka.

Sent from my SM-A202F using Tapatalk
 
Make sure that it is backed up by a big stick.

Ie all those on curfew and community work are on suspended sentences which can be used if required.

They can live whatever life they wish, but if they are not where they are supposed to be, when they are supposed to be there, sober and drug free... a couple of weeks in nick beckons to put them on the straight and narrow.

What makes you think that they won't be able to buy dodgy substances while locked up? That certainty went away years ago, according to what we have read in this and similar threads.
 

neil82

Old-Salt
30 years ago a mate was on an extended holiday in walton, liverpool, on a visit he told me there was a better selection of cheaper drugs inside than outside, talking to a couple of local lads who have had a short break in berwyn nothing has changed
 
^ban physical visits. Zoom meetings are sufficient, don't add to CO2 like cars, don't mess the family around moving to the other side of the country, and don't allow things to be passed across.

Conduct drugs testings and keep lags on the hop by moving cells randomly.
 
^ban physical visits. Zoom meetings are sufficient, don't add to CO2 like cars, don't mess the family around moving to the other side of the country, and don't allow things to be passed across.

Conduct drugs testings and keep lags on the hop by moving cells randomly.
Do you think that this is not done?
 
Do you think that this is not done?
Not really.

Because people still visit.

Drugs testing should include automatic extenders on sentancing, let's say a month for each positive. and by cell transfers I mean weekly. Give the lags a little backpack for their belongings and when they leave the cell in the morning to walk around the outside perimenter, they know that they'll return to a different cell/wing maybe prison.
 
Lifeboat 21, please realise that convicted criminals have more rights & access to social help than any other member of society, especially those tasked with keeping them away from decent hard working members of the community.
Until this changes nothing else will in our glorious example of penal reform in the modern world.

Sent from my SM-A202F using Tapatalk
 
Not really.

Because people still visit.

Drugs testing should include automatic extenders on sentancing, let's say a month for each positive. and by cell transfers I mean weekly. Give the lags a little backpack for their belongings and when they leave the cell in the morning to walk around the outside perimenter, they know that they'll return to a different cell/wing maybe prison.
1. Random drugs testing already takes place throughout the prison system and penalties are applied as appropriate.

2. Cell transfers, and indeed wing transfers, take place already, depending on intelligence. What you are recommending, weekly cell transfers, would be an impossible task for prisons to undertake considering the time it would take, the numbers of officers available (daily/weekly tasks still need to be done, interviews, parole boards, pre-release stuff, gym, chapel, employment, SOTP, education, etc). Periodically we transferred some of our CAT A High/Exceptional Risk lovelies to other establishments, again on intelligence received or as directed by Special Branch.

3. Very few prisoners walk around the perimeter of a prison, it's a security risk and virtually impossible to safely supervise. At Full Sutton there were wing exercise areas in the centre of the block surrounded on all sides by the block walls with anti-helicopter poles/wires in the middle. There were football pitches surrounded by security fencing than the dearly beloved could walk round in good weather, again under the watchful eyes of cameras and officers, plus officers manning gates throughout the prison interior to allow people out and then back in. In the segregation wing there were a number of small fenced/caged in areas that prisoners were offered 1 hour for outside exercise, quite a few didn't bother.

As I've already said, you have no idea so please, just give up.
 
2. Cell transfers, and indeed wing transfers, take place already, depending on intelligence. What you are recommending, weekly cell transfers, would be an impossible task for prisons to undertake considering the time it would take, the numbers of officers available (daily/weekly tasks still need to be done, interviews, parole boards, pre-release stuff, gym, chapel, employment, SOTP, education, etc). Periodically we transferred some of our CAT A High/Exceptional Risk lovelies to other establishments, again on intelligence received or as directed by Special Branch.
I'm thinking more of a 'musical chairs' arrangement with cons in a different cell every night.

Walking the perimeter could be a sort of secure archway, preferably electrified, for exercise and fresh air.
 

neil82

Old-Salt
^ban physical visits. Zoom meetings are sufficient, don't add to CO2 like cars, don't mess the family around moving to the other side of the country, and don't allow things to be passed across.

Conduct drugs testings and keep lags on the hop by moving cells randomly.
you really don`t have a ******* clue, ban physical visits, zoom, keeping family close, IF THE MEETINGS WERE DONE OVER ZOOM IT WOULD NOT MATTER IF THEY WERE ON MARS, never going to happen until convicts lose the right of access to the ECHR, they did not give a shit about their victims rights so why should they enjoy more protection than any member of the public
 
Lifeboat 21, please realise that convicted criminals have more rights & access to social help than any other member of society, especially those tasked with keeping them away from decent hard working members of the community.
Until this changes nothing else will in our glorious example of penal reform in the modern world.

Sent from my SM-A202F using Tapatalk
I know.

I did look at joining as a screw once, but a mate (who was a screw at the time) put me right off.
 
Not really.

Because people still visit.

Drugs testing should include automatic extenders on sentancing, let's say a month for each positive. and by cell transfers I mean weekly. Give the lags a little backpack for their belongings and when they leave the cell in the morning to walk around the outside perimenter, they know that they'll return to a different cell/wing maybe prison.
You can tell by what you have written that you know fcuk all about prison.
 

Latest Threads

Top