Turkish anger at US Armenian genocide vote

#1
Turkish anger at US Armenian 'genocide' vote

BBC News said:
Turkey has reacted angrily to US congressional panel's resolution describing as genocide the killings of Armenians in World War I.

PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his country had been accused of a crime it did not commit, adding the resolution would harm Turkish-US relations.

Ankara has recalled its ambassador to Washington for consultations and says it is considering other responses.

The resolution was narrowly approved - by 23 votes to 22 - by the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

It calls on President Barack Obama to ensure that US foreign policy reflects an understanding of the "genocide" and to label the World War I killings as such in his annual statement on the issue.

Turkish President Abdullah Gul responded angrily to the committee's vote, saying it was "an injustice to history" to take such a decision with "political concerns in mind".

"Turkey will not be responsible for the negative results that this event may lead to," he said.

BBC News - Turkish anger at US Armenian 'genocide' vote
BBC Radio4 reported this evening, that the senate/congress committee having agreed/approved the description of genocide, the Turkish government are now lobbying the White House in the hope that Washington will not recognise/ratify the senate/congress committee's decision.

albimangles said:
The attack on the actions in WW1 of Turkey by a US senate/congress committee puts another of the US key allies into a dilemma about its involvement with the US. Talk about a lack of diplomacy by the US . . . . .
fantassin said:
"the actions in WW1 of Turkey"....interesting way to call a genocide.

Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Note: "albimangles" and "fantassin" quotations lifted from another thread).
 
#2
It's a Non-Binding Resolution, so what's to ratify?
 
#3
Would anyone care to hazard a serious explanation for the actions of the House Foreign Affairs Committee? Surely they're not just fishing for a fatuous apology?

B
 
#4
Voters of Armenian Heritage

1,270,000 potential voters.
 
#5
Well it was Genocide by any stretch of the imagination even though the Turks refuse to talk about it but im wondering why the USA would antagonise thier most moderate(ish) and friendly islamic state in this way.
 
#6
This campaign to get the incident listed as a massacre is going to come back and bite the Armenians in the arse. They have a none to proud history concerning the Azeris.

Pots and kettles, goose and gander, goes around comes around and all that.
 
#7
Goldbricker said:
Voters of Armenian Heritage

1,270,000 potential voters.
Many of them generous donors, particularly to senior Dems.

All I can say is this is only slightly less idiotic than the last time they tried to make this sentimental gesture at the height of the carnage in Iraq.

DC badly needs the Turks onside, they are the only credible partner in the region and lately, after much careless abuse of their interests, have been tilting Eastward.

The Turks are very sensitive about the founders of theirt modern state being called Genocidaires. Guilty as sin of course but many nations have something nasty in the woodshed they'd rather forget about.
 
#8
Lets be Honest Mustapha Kemal "Atter Turk" was a murdering Barsteward
 
#9
tropper66 said:
Lets be Honest Mustapha Kemal "Atter Turk" was a murdering Barsteward
He had a habit of getting what he wanted. When I say habit what I meant was a pathological drive in getting things done 'his way' or 'stop living'.

When he wanted the Turkish language modernised and moved to the Roman alphabet he gave the scholars 6 months, or else.
 
#10
This from Turkish media demonstrates the term "genocide" is becoming quite popular:

What About American, European Genocides!

What About American, European Genocides! Amerikanska folk | Wikimedia Commons

By Fareed Mahdy

IDN-InDepth NewsAnalysis

ISTANBUL (IDN) – Did you ask yourself what would happen if the Turkish parliament’s foreign affairs committee adopted a resolution calling “genocides” the U.S. killing of American natives, the Spanish extermination of aborigines in Latin America, the atrocious American nuclear bombs on Japan or the U.S. wars on Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq – just to mention some massive murdering perpetrated by Western powers? Probably you did not.

Otherwise, you would have felt indeed astonished by the decision of the U.S. Congress foreign affairs committee to brand as “genocide” the death of an estimated 1.5 million Armenians under the Ottoman Empire during the First World War, specifically between the years 1915 and 1918.

Moreover, the U.S. Congressional committee's resolution, which was approved on March 4, would have no clear justification. Apparently, nothing new happened regarding this particular issue since the Foreign Affairs committee adopted a similar resolution in 2007.

Why then a new resolution and why now?

There would be many possible explanations, such as the heavy pressure of Armenian diaspora in the U.S., and the eventual U.S. dissatisfaction with the new Turkish political and diplomatic orientation, which has touched untouchable Israel and brought up other unforgivable 'sins', such as stepping up Ankara's relations with Damascus and Tehran.

In fact, in less than one year, Turkey has gradually shifted its policy from the trend to “westernisation” and obsessive aspirations to join the European Union (EU) as a full member, for an increasing “easternisation”, with an active, energetic presence in the Middle East.

No wonder, exhausted by EU mounting requirements leading nowhere – French president Nicolas Sarkozy and former Belgian prime minister Herman van Rompuy, now acting as the first full-time president of the European Council, among other EU leaders, have declared that Turkey will never be a EU member – Ankara had to opt for looking for its interests somewhere else.

Moreover, the timing of the U.S. Congress resolution could not be less appropriate for Armenian-Turkish new relations. Ankara has made a huge effort to normalise its relations with Armenia, with which it signed in October 2009 a series of protocols aiming at gradually achieving cooperation and understanding ties between the two countries.

TURKISH REACTION

Ankara's reaction to the U.S. Congressional resolution has been immediate. In fact, it recalled its ambassador to the U.S., Namik Tan, and condemned the U.S. Congress resolution to declare the killing of Armenians by Ottoman forces in the First World War "genocide".

"We condemn this resolution which accuses the Turkish nation of a crime it has not committed," Ankara said in a statement following the Congress vote.

For his part, President Abdullah Gul of Turkey said the resolution had "no value in the eyes of the Turkish people" and warned that it would deal a blow on fledgling efforts to end decades of hostility between Turkey and Armenia.

The U.S. Congressional resolution prompted popular condemnation demonstrations in the streets of main Turkish cities.

TURKISH STRENGTH

In view of its key importance as an ally in the U.S. wars on Iraq, Afghanistan and in Pakistan, as well as the fight against the so-called global terrorism, its role in Middle East peace process and as potential mediator in Iran nuclear standoff – let alone being a reliable NATO ally, having sent more troops to Afghanistan, and hosting powerful U.S. military bases on its territory, among other strategic contributions – Turkey could not have reacted less furiously.

Ankara has stepped up its reaction calling on the White House not to let the Congressional committee resolution be passed to and approved by the whole House of the Representatives.

THE U.S. REPLY

Almost without delay, U.S. Secretary, Hilary Clinton, reacted to Ankara's call.

“I, Hillary Clinton, along with our President Barack Obama, we mentioned very obviously that this decision by the Congressional Committee of House of the Representatives is inappropriate," said Clinton. She added: "We are against this decision. Now we believe that the U.S. Congress will not take any decision on this subject."

The new tensions caused by the U.S. Congress can lead to anything but facilitating peaceful, negotiated solutions to the Middle East conflict and the nuclear 'crisis' with Tehran. Maybe it’s just about that? (IDN-InDepthNews/06.03.2010)
http://www.indepthnews.net/news/news.php?key1=2010-03-06 13:55:15&key2=1
 
#11
From the WSJ White House Puts Brakes on Armenia Vote
Resolution to Brand 1915 Killings 'Genocide' Is Less Likely to Reach Full Vote, as U.S. Appears to Try to Soothe Turkey
...
Recent administrations have lobbied against such resolutions. The Obama administration remained publicly silent on the vote until administration officials, including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, began speaking out against congressional action earlier this week. Mrs. Clinton said Thursday that "we do not believe that the full Congress will or should act upon that resolution."

Influential Armenian-American leaders say they plan to lobby for a full House vote. They also criticized Mr. Obama for undermining a campaign promise to recognize the killings as genocide. "I don't know how the president could have sent a more negative message to Armenian-American voters," said Aram Hamparian, executive director of the Armenian National Committee of America.

The administration says the genocide question should be addressed between Turkey and Armenia, its neighbor.

The Aerospace Industries Association issued a statement Friday urging the full House not to act on the resolution. The association fears the controversy could dampen an expected $11 billion in defense and aerospace sales to Turkey this year.

Turkish officials took comfort in the closeness of the committee vote, saying it suggests Congress wouldn't risk a full House vote. Armenian-Americans have won several previous votes but never a full Congressional approval. The Bush administration blocked a 2007 floor vote in the House.

Still, there was no hiding the concern the vote caused in Ankara. Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, speaking at a news conference, said he would consult with President Abdullah Gül and opposition parties to formulate a common policy on what was "a matter of national honor for us," the state news agency reported.

Mr. Davutoglu called for the U.S. not to let the genocide issue move to the floor of the House for a vote. He also said he expected Mr. Obama not to inflame tensions on April 24, the date of an annual presidential statement on the tragedies, by describing the killings as genocide.

Turkey is NATO's sole Muslim member and operates the alliance's second-largest military. It hosts U.S. airbases on the border with Iraq, heads the international force in the Afghan capital Kabul and has taken a prominent unofficial role as mediator between Iran and the U.S. in their dispute over Iran's nuclear fuel program.

"We expect our contributions not to be sacrificed by some local political games in the United States," Mr. Davutoglu said.
Team Barry is right to stomp on this childishness just as his predecessor did.
 
#12
turks we did'nt do nothing anyway they had it coming to them :evil:
yanks did commit genocide re Americans
Vietnam carpet bombing north Vietnam etc possible.

won't list are numerous blood soaked deeds as frankly we'd run out of space.
some of the boxheads who went onto infamy in ww2 were training the ottomans when it went down they probably took notes on how to improve things :cry:
 
#13
brighton hippy said:
turks we did'nt do nothing anyway they had it coming to them :evil:
yanks did commit genocide re Americans
Vietnam carpet bombing north Vietnam etc possible.

won't list are numerous blood soaked deeds as frankly we'd run out of space.
some of the boxheads who went onto infamy in ww2 were training the ottomans when it went down they probably took notes on how to improve things :cry:
The Turkish argument was that it was done in the time of the Ottoman Empire and has nothing to do with the modern secular state that is Turkey. A bit like the Aussies clearing the way of Aborigines and holding the present UK to task over it.

A poor analogy but the best I could come up with while typing and watching footy.
 
#14
brighton hippy said:
Vietnam carpet bombing north Vietnam etc possible.
If Bombing (against a foe who shot back) is Genocide, well then what was Combined RAF/USAAF air campaign over Germany? does that make all Lancaster & Fortress crews the same as Concentration camp guards?
 
#15
brighton hippy said:
turks we did'nt do nothing anyway they had it coming to them :evil:
yanks did commit genocide re Americans
Vietnam carpet bombing north Vietnam etc possible.

won't list are numerous blood soaked deeds as frankly we'd run out of space.
some of the boxheads who went onto infamy in ww2 were training the ottomans when it went down they probably took notes on how to improve things :cry:
I note your rather liberal (in all respects) apparent definition of "genocide" is like that of many others in recent times who use the term as an emotionally rhetorical device in contexts that are similar to real genocide (in terms of the generally accepted and juridical definitions) only in that lives may have been lost.

In terms of the US bombing in Vietnam you conflate with "genocide," I humbly suggest you do a bit more history study and not be led astray by headlines or other rather meaningless, though no doubt colorful and emotive, descriptors like "carpet bombing." Such terms are used, often quite purposely (the same occurred in the 1991 Gulf War when US B-52s were said to have "carpet bombed" the Republican Guard formations) to suggest a lack of care and ignoring of then-applicable norms of international law (much changed since WWII) by the US that is not borne out by the facts, contrary to the assertions of Ramsey Clark and others.
 
#16
joey_deacons_lad said:
Well it was Genocide by any stretch of the imagination even though the Turks refuse to talk about it but im wondering why the USA would antagonise thier most moderate(ish) and friendly islamic state in this way.
Hitler used it to minimise his actions against the Jews, see below

Hitler (ANCA) wrote:

"Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?"
 
#17
The problem the Turks have is that they went nation building a couple of centuries too late. The history of Europe is full of this sort of thing, only it happened long enough ago that it is seen as history rather than genocide. That's not to support it or approve of it, but let's be honest about things.

Frankly, if I was Turkish I'd find the US a touch hypocritical on this issue given what they did to the Native Americans. I'd also wonder why the role of the Kurds in the massacres is not discussed or why the Assyrians never get a mention.

Well, I would if it wasn't clear that this is a blatant grab for votes by US domestic politicians. Trouble is, the US needs Turkey more than the other way round.
 
#18
One_of_the_strange said:
The problem the Turks have is that they went nation building a couple of centuries too late. The history of Europe is full of this sort of thing, only it happened long enough ago that it is seen as history rather than genocide. That's not to support it or approve of it, but let's be honest about things.

Frankly, if I was Turkish I'd find the US a touch hypocritical on this issue given what they did to the Native Americans. I'd also wonder why the role of the Kurds in the massacres is not discussed or why the Assyrians never get a mention.

Well, I would if it wasn't clear that this is a blatant grab for votes by US domestic politicians. Trouble is, the US needs Turkey more than the other way round.
Did the Turks give the Armenians their own areas in which to live as well allow them to build casinos with which to skin (economically speaking) the evil white eyes? :D
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top