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Turkey v YPG

What word did we give the Kurds? Try as I might I cannot find any treaty, or promises from Obama in 2009 on, or trump to providing Perpetual Air Support, or a homeland. Can you link it up?

South Korea, Japan are full fledged Nation with defined borders and US bases and units stationed there for almost 74 years in Japans case.

Odd the same people who kvetch endlessly that the trump is a warmonger are upset because trump will not go to war with turkey or Syria How many of you are willing to pick up a weapon and fight the turks for a Kurd?
Okay,you go on believing that America's credibility has not been dumped then. I mean, it was only 14,000 Kurdish fighters who died fighting IS for you, eh?

Oh, and for what it's worth I think the same thing about the UK and Europe, we should be f ucking ashamed of ourselves.
 
Okay,you go on believing that America's credibility has not been dumped then. I mean, it was only 14,000 Kurdish fighters who died fighting IS for you, eh?

Oh, and for what it's worth I think the same thing about the UK and Europe, we should be f ucking ashamed of ourselves.
Good point.
A question is, can we intervene in, say, the ME, if the US isn't on board? US sanctions may soon end the Turkish attacks but, if the US had never sent troops and aircraft to Syria, how different would the humanitarian crisis have been?
I am not sure that we are capable of doing what the US has done in Syria, in terms of demand placed upon resources. Perhaps not even with the help of France, etc.
The impact of the US decision on future conflicts could be huge.
 
Okay,you go on believing that America's credibility has not been dumped then. I mean, it was only 14,000 Kurdish fighters who died fighting IS for you, eh?

Oh, and for what it's worth I think the same thing about the UK and Europe, we should be f ucking ashamed of ourselves.
They were fighting to establish a Kurdish state; this involved both defeating IS and displacing the remaining Syrian Arabs. Don't be taken in by the doughy, plucky Kurds as some sort of Levantine equivalent of the gurkhas. PYD (like the PKK) are a Marxist group with good PR and enormous territorial ambitions.

Al Assad may ne helping them out now the Americans are leaving but I wouldn't count on the establishment of a Syrian Kurdish autonomous region any time soon, whilst Turkey continues to lose what few friends it has through this act of enormous self-harm.
 
The Turks, creating a buffer zone by pushing the problems away. Will that become a client state such as Israel and South Lebanon?
I believe that is the plan and it is about as likely to work as South Lebanon did. On top of his desire to liquidate the Kurdish problem Erdogan desperately wants somewhere to dump his refugees because a) they aren't Turks and b) he can't afford them.
 
They were fighting to establish a Kurdish state; this involved both defeating IS and displacing the remaining Syrian Arabs. Don't be taken in by the doughy, plucky Kurds as some sort of Levantine equivalent of the gurkhas. PYD (like the PKK) are a Marxist group with good PR and enormous territorial ambitions.

Al Assad may be helping them out now the Americans are leaving but I wouldn't count on the establishment of a Syrian Kurdish autonomous region any time soon, whilst Turkey continues to lose what few friends it has through this act of enormous self-harm.
Well if they're Marxists that settles everything doesn't it, gas them all now, and nuke the remains.

In a world where it's clear national boundaries need to be divided along perceived racist lines to avoid pogroms against minorities the Kurds got the short end of the stick in 1919. About the only person not to take a swing at them was the great Satan Saddam Hussein. Funny that, how such an evil man could run a country that was so tolerant of a number of minorities, but hey ho he was the target of the US Neo-cons so he had to go.
 
Well if they're Marxists that settles everything doesn't it, gas them all now, and nuke the remains.

In a world where it's clear national boundaries need to be divided along perceived racist lines to avoid pogroms against minorities the Kurds got the short end of the stick in 1919. About the only person not to take a swing at them was the great Satan Saddam Hussein. Funny that, how such an evil man could run a country that was so tolerant of a number of minorities, but hey ho he was the target of the US Neo-cons so he had to go.
Erm, Saddam gassed them in 1988.
 
Good point.
A question is, can we intervene in, say, the ME, if the US isn't on board? US sanctions may soon end the Turkish attacks but, if the US had never sent troops and aircraft to Syria, how different would the humanitarian crisis have been?
I am not sure that we are capable of doing what the US has done in Syria, in terms of demand placed upon resources. Perhaps not even with the help of France, etc.
The impact of the US decision on future conflicts could be huge.
I would say a far bigger question is should we. Just because we have the military muscle [and actually of course we don't] what right or reason do we have to continue to pretend to be an imperial power f*cking up other countries because we think it suits us.

The lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan ought to be seen as: -
We aren't wanted
We don't understand the problems
We don't have the military capability to achieve anything even if you ignore points 1 and 2
There is no gain from any such operation for the country as whole economically or the forces militarily

From which the obvious conclusion is "Keep the F*ck out of it".
 
Memory must be slipping, I though that was the marsh Arabs in the South; however that reinforces my first point, in a world where you need your own nation to be safe the Kurds were denied their's in 1919
Unless you were from his own Al Tikriti tribe, Saddam was an equal opportunities oppressor.
 
I would say a far bigger question is should we. Just because we have the military muscle [and actually of course we don't] what right or reason do we have to continue to pretend to be an imperial power f*cking up other countries because we think it suits us.

The lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan ought to be seen as: -
We aren't wanted
We don't understand the problems
We don't have the military capability to achieve anything even if you ignore points 1 and 2
There is no gain from any such operation for the country as whole economically or the forces militarily

From which the obvious conclusion is "Keep the F*ck out of it".
Agreed.
We (government) needs to think before it speaks, too. At the time of the Arab Spring, statements were made, re. Libya and Syria, which may have created the impression that we would support the uprisings. I don't think the statements calmed the situation in either country. The statements were probably not of major importance, but they had some influence. They gave some protesters hope.
 
Alongside the Bladensberg races and Saigon we now have....Syria, the bottom line is that America has fallen for Turkish intimidation and melted like chocolate and it won't be looked on the same again for a very long time, the same can be said for our little tag along army, it seems we were just there to say "we are there", the moment we don't have the hand of America to hold we have a nervous wee.

It takes someone really special to make Assad and Putin look like the saviors of people.
 
I would say a far bigger question is should we. Just because we have the military muscle [and actually of course we don't] what right or reason do we have to continue to pretend to be an imperial power f*cking up other countries because we think it suits us.

The lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan ought to be seen as: -
We aren't wanted
We don't understand the problems
We don't have the military capability to achieve anything even if you ignore points 1 and 2
There is no gain from any such operation for the country as whole economically or the forces militarily

From which the obvious conclusion is "Keep the F*ck out of it".
Ive never thought we should intervene, GW1 was if possibly still classed along with WW2 as a just war and we gained from our involvement. We had nothing to gain from Herrick or Telic and still the Labour leaders thought it was the clever thing to do.
You'd think they hadn't learnt from the 1960's when we at least had reasonably sized forces.
 
Wee Nicola, addressing her SNP colleagues in Aberdeen has just made clear their strong opposition to Turkish aggression on the Syrian Border and warned them in the strongest terms “it must stop NOW”.
That’ll do it - endex! :grin:
 
Just look at the Montagnards and Hmong to see what we will do. the Kurds are hosed
Oh I know no one does indecent haste like a western super power but I was thinking about the "Total withdrawal" of US Forces and how actually real that is?
I imagine the folk from Langley will have someone on the ground regardless and although they have a really poor rep for leaving people hanging I expect the occasional frone strike will still take place.
 
Okay,you go on believing that America's credibility has not been dumped then. I mean, it was only 14,000 Kurdish fighters who died fighting IS for you, eh?

Oh, and for what it's worth I think the same thing about the UK and Europe, we should be f ucking ashamed of ourselves.
So whats YOUR Answer Clausewitz?

Perpetual US Air Support and USSF ODA's as shields for the next 100 years?

the fact is the Kurds are spread out over several areas and None of those nations will for a second give up territory for a fully autonomous Kurd Homeland OR claims on the Kurds as their citizens

Remember how for over a decade people have whined about Europeans redrawing borders in ME without regard for the realities on the ground? Well wouldn't that also apply to a Kurd Homeland set up by US Force?
 

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