Turkey / Libya crisis?

[Grumblegrunt]

There wasn't a lot of colonialism by the French during UNIFIED PROTECTOR, which was only 9 years ago, and I believe for the ongoing SERVAL, France is there at the request of the Malian government.

france afrique is still alive and leaving shattered dreams in its wake.

the hatred felt for France in Madagascar is rather disconcerting. but then they are desperate to join the commonwealth which is fine by me as if anyone could do with UK aid it's madagascar.

I'd start by shipping all our travellers over avec caravans to build some decent roads.

 

[LeoRoverman]

Yeah, it's not like they were our besties in Suez (MUSKETEER) or Libya (ELLAMY), or most recently doing eFP in Estonia and cooperating on Op NEWCOMBE/SERVAL in Mali.

That isn’t the point. Our Entente policies led us into two world wars with them. French Policy in Suez was because they were diametrically opposed to US predominance. Their policies in Algeria seriously backfired as did their Asian one and it isn’t as if they had no interest in Libya, just the Italians got in the way

 

[SkippedOnce]

That isn’t the point. Our Entente policies led us into two world wars with them. French Policy in Suez was because they were diametrically opposed to US predominance. Their policies in Algeria seriously backfired as did their Asian one and it isn’t as if they had no interest in Libya, just the Italians got in the way

And the poor manipulated UK had no choice but to acquiesce to Gallic pressure.

 

[LeoRoverman]

And the poor manipulated UK had no choice but to acquiesce to Gallic pressure.

I don’t know, you decide. Personally I think it was stupid of us to take the pressure off French ambition, but I do like to keep balance. But they really have nothing to offer us other than the emasculation of our own ambition. It’s a dirty word these days for the UK, but so far I’ve heard vey little about Dutch, Belgian, French, Spanish, Italian or Portuguese colonialism. Seems the most successful take the flak.
I mean it’s worth recalling that HRE came to an end when Napoleon ended it, having executed a king they then Permitted Napoleon to call himself emperor. We’d faught the 100 years war over their claims to our throne, The seven years war in their attempt to oust us from our colonies plus their attempts in Europe, then the Napoleonic wars for exactly that reason. Crimea was a bit of a faux pas wasn’t it?

 

[Yokel]

1. Why are Egypt and Turkey, who used to be allies, at each others' throats? What are the roots of this crisis?

2. Why are other states being drawn in?

3. What are the implications for the safety of shipping in the Mediterranean and access to the Suez canal?

4. With a defence and security review of the horizon, will OUR political leaders pay attention to the value of naval forces, including aviation and amphibious capabilities, in dealing with a crisis and geopolitical tension?

 

[SkippedOnce]

1. Why are Egypt and Turkey, who used to be allies, at each others' throats? What are the roots of this crisis?

2. Why are other states being drawn in?

The standard reason; I can get more influence out of one faction rather than the other, particularly if I play kingmaker, at which point they 'owe' me.

'Egypt’s lawmakers are to vote Monday to authorize the president to deploy troops to neighboring Libya if Turkey-backed forces, allied with the Tripoli-based government, move to retake the strategic coastal city of Sirte. An Egyptian intervention would put two US allies – Turkey and Egypt – in possible direct confrontation.

'The vote was initially scheduled for Sunday but was moved to Monday in a closed session, AP quoted lawmaker Mustafa Bakry as saying. The House of Representatives is packed with supporters of President Abdel Fatah el-Sisi.

'Egypt has been backing the eastern-based Libyan forces in the conflict while Turkey supports the UN-recognized government in the capital, Tripoli, in the west. Egypt’s president warned in June that any attack on Sirte or the inland Jufra air base would prompt Cairo to intervene militarily, purportedly to protect its western border with Libya.'

Egypt’s parliament to vote on deploying troops to Libya as Turkey-allied forces threaten to take Sirte

Egypt’s lawmakers are to vote Monday to authorize the president to deploy troops to neighboring Libya if Turkey-backed forces, allied with the Tripoli-based government, move to retake the strategic coastal city of Sirte.

www.rt.com

 

[SkippedOnce]

Update: I wonder if the Egyptians have studied the drive to Tobruk on Op CRUSADER (under a suitable synonym)?

'Egypt’s parliament on Monday approved the deployment of armed forces abroad to fight “criminal militias” and “foreign terrorist groups” on a “western front”, after President Abdel-Fattah al-Sisi said Cairo could intervene in Libya.

'Parliament said in a statement that the troops would be defending national security, without giving further details or naming Libya directly. The decision came after Sisi said last week that Egypt would not stand idle if there was threat to national security in Egypt and its western neighbour, Libya, if parliament gave its approval.'

Egypt's Sisi wins parliamentary approval for possible Libya intervention

Egypt's parliament gave President Abdel-Fattah al-Sisi the green light for possible military intervention in Libya by approving the deployment of armed forces abroad to fight "terrorist groups" and "militias".

uk.reuters.com

 

[SkippedOnce]

It appears that Erdogan is taking a leaf out of Xi's playbook and investing in infrastructure (and influence) in Africa.

'Turkey’s newly-signed military agreement with Niger signals Ankara’s interest in maintaining a foothold in the oil rich, war-torn country of Libya next door, The New Khalij reported on Friday.

'Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu met with President of Niger Mahamadou in Niger on July 21st, when the pair signed a military agreement and discussed the effects of the ongoing war in Libya on their respective countries. The move by Ankara is part of an attempt to secure a ground border with Libya against a possible military confrontation with Egypt, The New Khalij said.

'While in Niger, Çavuşoğlu vowed to make contributions to the country in the areas of transportation, construction, energy, mining and agriculture, in what The New Khalij said was part of Ankara’s ongoing extensive contributions to infrastructure development on the continent.'

Turkey’s military pact with Niger securing foothold in neighbouring Libya - The New Khalij | Ahval

The move by Ankara is part of an attempt to secure a ground border with Libya against a possible military confrontation with Egypt, The New Khalij said.

ahvalnews.com

 

[SkippedOnce]

As the proverb goes, 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend'.

'Egypt and Greece signed an agreement on Thursday on setting up an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) between the two countries, Egyptian Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry said.

'He spoke at a joint press conference with his Greek counterpart Nikos Dendias.

'The deal was reached amid tension over natural resources in the Eastern Mediterranean region, where Turkey, Greece and Cyprus remain locked in a complex diplomatic standoff.

'Thursday’s agreement comes almost two months after Greece and Italy signed an accord on maritime zones in the Ionian Sea.

'Last year Turkey and Libya’s internationally recognized government signed an agreement on maritime boundaries in the Mediterranean Sea.

'The deal has been criticized by, among others, the European Union, Egypt, Russia and the US, as well as Field Marshal Khalifa Belqasim Haftar, who has the backing of Libya's National Assembly.'

Greece and Egypt sign agreement on exclusive economic zone | eKathimerini.com

Egypt and Greece signed an agreement on Thursday designating an exclusive economic zone in the eastern Mediterranean between the two countries, an area containing promising oil and gas reserves, Egyptian Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry said.

www.ekathimerini.com

'Turkey on Thursday slammed a "so-called agreement" between Greece and Egypt on an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the Eastern Mediterranean.

'Stressing that Greece and Egypt had no mutual sea border, the Turkish Foreign Ministry in a statement declared the so-called maritime agreement "null and void.”

'The so-called demarcated area is located on Turkey's continental shelf, as reported to the UN, the ministry said.

'It also noted that Egypt had already abandoned 11,500 square kilometers (3,352 square nautical miles) of its continental shelf in a previous agreement it signed with the Greek Cypriot administration in 2003.

'Egypt is again losing its maritime jurisdiction with the latest so-called treaty, which also seeks to usurp Libya's rights, it said.

'Turkey will not allow any activity in these areas and will continue to resolutely defend its legitimate rights and interests in the Eastern Mediterranean as well as those of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, it added.

'In a post on Twitter, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said the “Greece-Egypt agreement is null and void. Will continue to resolutely defend rights of Turkey & Turkish Cypriots at the table & on the ground.”

Turkey slams 'so-called' maritime deal by Greece, Egypt

So-called demarcated area located in Turkish continental shelf, says Foreign Ministry - Anadolu Agency

www.aa.com.tr

 

[LeoRoverman]

It all has a terribly familiar ring to it c 1900.

 

[medwaymud]

It all has a terribly familiar ring to it c 1900.

And I hope we again back our true allies, the Greeks rather than our pretend allies, the Turks.

 

[LeoRoverman]

And I hope we again back our true allies, the Greeks rather than our pretend allies, the Turks.

I hope it doesn't come to that, the the ME situation looks like round two for the re-establishment of an Ottoman like empire. Just so long as we do it for us, not on the coat tails of France or the EU/US and for the benefit of others

 

[SkippedOnce]

I hope it doesn't come to that, the the ME situation looks like round two for the re-establishment of an Ottoman like empire. Just so long as we do it for us, not on the coat tails of France or the EU/US and for the benefit of others

The joy of allies; it's not as if we might need some ourselves some day.

 

[LeoRoverman]

The joy of allies; it's not as if we might need some ourselves some day.

Now turn that round the other way. Everyone wants alliances for their own reasons

 

[AsterixTG]

Now turn that round the other way. Everyone wants alliances for their own reasons

No friends, just interests...

 

[SkippedOnce]

No friends, just interests...

Lord Palmerston/Charles de Gaulle/Henry Kissinger walt!

 

[fantassin]

According to the Greek paper below, France and Cyprus are about to sign a military treaty.

Military assistance in case of an attack against the Southern part of the island against access to the Paphos airport and Limassol harbour.

 

[LeoRoverman]

No friends, just interests...

Exactly keep it like that and we’ll all know where we stand

 

[LeoRoverman]

Lord Palmerston/Charles de Gaulle/Henry Kissinger walt!

I’ll refer you to the Schleswig problem, Palmerston had forgotten what it was about

 

[SkippedOnce]

An interesting commentary (originally published by a Greek outlet), repro'd by Ahval.

'From the signing of the Turkey-Libya agreement on maritime boundaries, it was clear that there had to be a response from the Greek side. The fact is that the above memorandum is completely illegal. International maritime law suggests that for there to be an agreement on maritime boundaries between nations they must have either adjacent or opposite coastlines. In the case of Turkey and Libya, their coastlines are 620 kilometres apart, while those of Greece and Libya are less than 300 km apart.

'This agreement is not only illegal, but it also goes contrary to geography and common sense. However, it still is an international treaty, something which the Turks have been touting since its signing. This claim presented an obstacle which needed to be overcome.

'The best option was through Egypt. The possible outcomes were two, either a demarcation agreement or a recourse to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) if an agreement was not reached. Discussions concerning maritime boundaries between Egypt and Greece had begun in 2005 but had led nowhere. Egypt had proven extremely tough regarding maritime demarcation. Moreover, it had no intention of getting embroiled in the Greek-Turkish dispute. Their position was simple: Solve your issues with Turkey and then tell us with whom we should sign.

'After many years of fruitless discussions, the best solution would be to bring it up to the ICJ; however, that required the agreement of Egypt, which was not considered a given. The most important factor was deemed to be time. Turkey could implement its agreement with Libya at any time. In contrast, ICJ arbitration would have taken at least four or five years.'

Egypt-Greece deal was necessary to counter Turkish threat | Ahval

The Greek-Egyptian maritime deal puts Greece in a stronger position, which, coupled with diplomacy, our alliances, and the deterrent measure which our armed forces pose, help us balance the tensions in the region.

ahvalnews.com