Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Psypher, Feb 26, 2008.
The heart of the site is the forum area, including:
Turkey's attempt to modernise Islam.
Ah yes, this was on Radio 4 this morning.
I'm a little wary of anyone bandying "Reformation" around, but this approach could make for a healthy change from the usual infighting one sees; the self-conscious "Reformers" on the one hand (Irshad Manji et al), and the year-zero types on the other, who between them have about 20 ahadith to quote...
I'm not that familiar with the Turkish situation, but I don't think that these changes are that radical - it sounds like the Turkish Ministry of Religious Affairs is laying down ground rules for the correct interpretation of the hadith, roughly in line with what most religious authorities (outside Saudi Arabia) would agree with. There's always been a huge number of hadiths which were thought to be weak or incorrect.
Having said that, it's an interesting move - perhaps the Turkish scholars want to create more home-grown expertise so that they can challenge Saudi teaching more effectively. It wouldn't suprise if the current government hadn't at least attempted to improve the quality of Islamic teaching in recent years for the same reason.
I'm sure a Yorkshireman did the rewrite (a lot of what they say makes sense).
Mod note: Jenny Agutter has gone to the Naafi with her knockers. Let's try to stay on topic
What the frock have Jenny Agutters knockers got to do with a serious discussuion of the de-radicalisation of Islam in the modern world you demented frocking...
Ah. Hi. A Mod. Sorry pal. I didnt notice.
So, do you think Turkey can pull it off? Like Jenny did with her top in Logans Run. Or not?
Partly I think. But also, Turkey has for some time been trying to steer a course away from their long time enemies to the South, the Gulf Arabs.
There is a very heavy theological debate behind this one, which I wont pretend to understand. But in Geo-Political terms this has to be a good move?
As for Turkey joining the EU? Its bigger than the EU. And take a look at the infrastructure West of Ankara. Its a right mess.
Its going to be one hell of a bill to pay. Maybe the price could be re-writing Islam as a slightly more moderate religion?
Yes I don't think this has so much to do with EU membership. Turkey historically has taken a more common sense approach to separating government and religion. Ataturk is revered perhaps equally as Mohammad. And it seems the constant waving of the carrot of EU membership so to do the West's bidding is wearing thin in Turkey.
An Islamic reformation has to be a good thing. However, whatever Turkey does, I doubt it will have much of an impact on the wider Islamic world. But a new modernised framework for Islam might be useful for Muslims living in western democracies?
IronDuke don't you mean East of Ankara?
Between aprox. 500-1000 (maybe 1500) AD, Islam was very different to what the fundamentalists claim to be Islam ATM. The Islamic world used to be way ahead of Christendom until the reformation/renaissance.
Something changed in Islam a fair while ago that changed it from a forward thinking religion to a backward one.
Whilst it's not the best certainly would it really be that bad? Spain and Portugal were in fairly bad shape when they first joined the European Community back in the mid-80s or how bad Romania is today as we're letting them in. Just looking at GDP - I know it's not greatly representative of things but we're just talking broad strokes here - Turkey's is 401,763 (millions of USD). Only Germany, the United Kingdom, France, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands are larger in the EU. Turkey outstrips the other 21 EU member states and in some cases by a very large margin.
Now of course there's no arguing that a lot of it's infrastructure is spotty and needs a lot of work doing to to, although can we really talk - hello British road and rail networks, but I don't think it'd be the black hole it could of been as long as you do it over a sensible time frame and target the correct things to spend the cash on. Just look at how Spain was able to spend the development aid they received to dramatically upgrade their national infrastructure.
But to get back onto the original topic of the thread for the moment I have to say this looks like it could be an incredibly good thing both for the religion of Islam itself and the Middle East region itself.
I meant North. Up around Mashhad. I meant a new, Northern Islam axis. I meant the home of the Prophet. The home of Sufi. The home of Islam we can deal with.
But if you want a chi-chi Rolex, or a Swiss hooker, buzz down the gulf. You can trust those boys, no error. Give my best to Osama's family?
Interpretation .. .. and in there lays the danger!
Be it extreem or moderate, it causes the splits in huamnity.
Is this not another bloody good reason for the Law of the Land to be secular and IF you want to be following religious law, it always has to come second!
I think we're at cross-purposes here. I thought you were originally referring to Turkey's infrastructure west of Ankara. The west of the country is the industrialised part with all the major cities, whereas as the east of Turkey is more agricultural based, and more religious.
The infrastructure in the west of the country isnt too bad, and as was mentioned above could be brought up to European standards with some investment. The major problem for Turkey is their economy, they need to get a handle on inflation. The country, both the infrastructure and economy reminds me of 1970s Britain.
Good luck to Turkey with this. I've been a couple of times and found it an incredible place.
I can see this creating a lot of trouble though. You'll have two people invoking the same god for opposing points of view? Perhaps the solution is to cut the whole god bit out entirely.
well done Turkey, good luck with your reformation, going on how the christian reformation went on, i guess in a hundred years or so we might have a conclusive result.................
............ now if the west could only start a reformation towards moderating religious fundamentalism in the US.
Separate names with a comma.