Turkey condemns US Armenia vote

#1
What is it with politicians. To make some poxy political point they pi$$ off a whole nation. They knew this would annoy the Turks but went ahead anyway and at the end of the day who actually benefits, no one. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. :roll:

Turkey has denounced a vote by a US congressional committee recognising as genocide the 1915-17 mass killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks.
Full story here.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
Well, we've just apologised for slavery, and I'd like to see the yanks apologise for the American Indians whilst they are at it, after all, they are STILL living on reservations, and the US is STILL occupied terrritory.

Don't even start me on South America - all those bl00dy spaniards have got alot to answer for . . . and Ozzies, and Canadians (French) etc. At least the New Zealanders have done something about their captive audience, for instance, letting them play Rugby.
 
#4
benjaminw1 said:
Good one, doing what's right rather than what's expedient.
But as Biped says there's a million wrongs in the world that need righting but to do this knowing it's going to pi$$ of one of your good mates is just plain stupid.
 
B

benjaminw1

Guest
#5
Ord_Sgt said:
benjaminw1 said:
Good one, doing what's right rather than what's expedient.
But as Biped says there's a million wrongs in the world that need righting but to do this knowing it's going to pi$$ of one of your good mates is just plain stupid.
You are not Neville Chamberlain reincarnated are you?
 
#6
benjaminw1 said:
Ord_Sgt said:
benjaminw1 said:
Good one, doing what's right rather than what's expedient.
But as Biped says there's a million wrongs in the world that need righting but to do this knowing it's going to pi$$ of one of your good mates is just plain stupid.
You are not Neville Chamberlain reincarnated are you?
eh? :?
 
#7
I reckon it was done for political point scoring, but it has highlighted the Turks refusal to look their own history in the face.

Think of how wound up we get when the Japs start suggesting that maybe Changi wasn't all that bad after all and remember that the Armenians were killed in a planned attempt to wipe out a population. That nobody wants to acknowledge this gave Hitler the idea that genocide wouldn't harm his international position too badly.

There's a world of difference between neglecting to look after a civilian population thereby allowing them to die in large numbers, and deliberately sending your troops in to kill them and raze their villages.
 
#8
smartascarrots said:
I reckon it was done for political point scoring, but it has highlighted the Turks refusal to look their own history in the face.

Think of how wound up we get when the Japs start suggesting that maybe Changi wasn't all that bad after all and remember that the Armenians were killed in a planned attempt to wipe out a population. That nobody wants to acknowledge this gave Hitler the idea that genocide wouldn't harm his international position too badly.

There's a world of difference between neglecting to look after a civilian population thereby allowing them to die in large numbers, and deliberately sending your troops in to kill them and raze their villages.
I agree with that entirely, I just can't understand what these politicians hope to gain by this.
 
#9
It wouldn't surprise me if this hadn't come about following the arrest/jailing of Armenian historians and Turkish publishers who so much as hint at what went on.

Turkey is in total denial at an official level, although the population is probably fairly aware that something untoward happened.

Churchill referred to what happened as a Holocaust - long before WW2.

Hitler was warned (by his own bods) not to do to the Jews what had happened to the Armenians, but replied along the lines of "No-one remembers the Amenians now, and everyone has forgotten to blame the Turks".

The Israelis even deny that it was a holocaust - mainly because they want the word for themselves alone.

It's a funny old world.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
If the Turks are getting bent out of shape because someone mentioned the attempted holocaust against the Armenians, and thus are denying it in one way or another, do we really want them in the EU?

It's one thing to have done bad things in the past, and pretty much every nation has, but one, in this enlightened day and age, especially considering we are all in the process of selling out to a Greater Soviet European Union, has to acknowledge that past, and accept it was wrong.

I, myself, am very sorry indeed that we let the yanks steal Indian land, and then remove our Queen as head of the new occupier state.
 
#11
What exactly does this achieve? Has any other government pointed out that the treatement of Native Americans constitutes genocide? Are the Americans the only nation with a government committee assembled solely for the prurpose of identifying genocide?
 
#12
whiffler said:
It wouldn't surprise me if this hadn't come about following the arrest/jailing of Armenian historians and Turkish publishers who so much as hint at what went on.

Turkey is in total denial at an official level, although the population is probably fairly aware that something untoward happened.

Churchill referred to what happened as a Holocaust - long before WW2.

Hitler was warned (by his own bods) not to do to the Jews what had happened to the Armenians, but replied along the lines of "No-one remembers the Amenians now, and everyone has forgotten to blame the Turks".

The Israelis even deny that it was a holocaust - mainly because they want the word for themselves alone.

It's a funny old world.
:wink: As long as the Turks keep this up good, no way into E.U. and hands into the PIGGY BANK (or kabab bank)good :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
 
#13
There is no doubt that them mass slaughter of Armenians in turkey was appalling, buthtis vote threatens the security ofthe Northern Iraqi border, IS the US now going to have to fight the Turks to protect the Iraqi soverign land? Even better they will have real dramas if it escalates and are thrown out of Incerlik etc.

Politically naive even if morally upstanding.
 
#14
Ord_Sgt said:
benjaminw1 said:
Ord_Sgt said:
benjaminw1 said:
Good one, doing what's right rather than what's expedient.
But as Biped says there's a million wrongs in the world that need righting but to do this knowing it's going to pi$$ of one of your good mates is just plain stupid.
You are not Neville Chamberlain reincarnated are you?
eh? :?
I think that Benjamin is suggesting that you are an 'appeser'...
 
#15
Ahh I see, well he obviously doesn't read many of my posts then.
 
#17
The Turks are, correct me if I am wrong, the only nation of modern times to have conducted a genocide and not been made to 'fess up to it. Moreover they treat those, Armenian or Turkish, who refer to that genocide like "reverse Holocaust deniers". It is apparently "disrespectful" of the Turkish state to point out that they massacred thousands, looted systematically their possessions - though obviously a law was passed to justify this post hoc - and eleiminated leaders of the Anatolian Armenians.

I for one think national pride based on denial of such an outstandingly dreadful episode in national history is anathema. Turkey need to stop whinging about it and get over it by admission, reconciliation and restitution if possible or appropriate. At present that seems unlikely, with the Turkish government prepared to die in a ditch over whether 300k, 600k or 1,500,000 died! Our man on the Turkish desk in 1917 estimated 600,000 casualties in 1915-1916 alone. German and Austrian observers also expressed similar scales of outrage.

The current Turkish "belief" is that this genocide did not in fact take place, the Armenians were collateral casualties in the turkish war effort and Turks of Anatolia were in fact victims of an Armenian genocide too! Boy, there is a heck of a way to go in getting ther Armenian Genocide recognised never mind reconciled!

It is alleged that Hitler believed that the lack of international condemnation of the annihilation of the Armenians indicated a similar likelihood of international ineffectualness if he started his own "cleansing". Which thinking, in effect, he was correct given the Western allies refusal to "believe" that such massacres were tasking place.
 
#18
This is the politics of Utopia not of the real world. The Turks are stratigically vital, hacking them off is idiocy. The Americans should examine their own first, starting with Blackwater, they can then condemn themselves for their treatment of the Sioux etc. How far back do they want to go? Which of their very few allies do they want to hack off next? Who are they going to condemn next? Henry Vth for killing his French prisoners at Agincourt?
 
#19
When you put it like that Cuddles I can see the other side. But, you don't change a nations beliefs overnight. And as has been said there is real politik to think about. We rather need Turkey on side at the moment and this isn't going to help much.
 
#20
I am in agreement with Cuddles that the Turks should face up to what their ancestors did. it was and is disgraceful. What we need to remember is that the Turks are not European what ever they may profess to be in their desire to climb aboard the EU gravy train and expecting them to say "mea culpa" in the way of the Germans post 1945 is not going to happen. such behaviour is not the way of the Turk and we cannot expect it from them.
All the American motion will do is reinforce them in their view that the west is only interested in them for their stratigic value and regards them as little more than cannon fodder in the great scheme of things.
Treating them as a vital nation and people may just get them to open their closed minds, kicking them will have the opposite effect.
That said there can be no entry to the EU or the North American Free Trade Area until they look their own history in the face and realise that to do so is not the mark of a defeated people in their case but of a mature society.
 

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