Turkey - a real turkey?

I really don't think the UK is any position to lecture or "advise" any other nation about democracy at the moment. Personal opinion. Much as I hate Brexit.
Well, I'd say that the UK has a system that can and should work, but is currently failing because of the humans involved. In Turkey there is neither a 'straight' system, nor the politicians to make the best of what they have, unfortunately.
 
I can assure you HMG will make its opinions known to the Governmentof Turkey, but will also regard this as a bilateral matter and not for virtue-signalling; I understand HBMA Sir Dominick Chilcot KCMG was at the Foreign Ministry in Ankara today.
I would imagine that this may not be a completely unknown route.
 
I can assure you HMG will make its opinions known to the Governmentof Turkey, but will also regard this as a bilateral matter and not for virtue-signalling; I understand HBMA Sir Dominick Chilcot KCMG was at the Foreign Ministry in Ankara today.
That'll learn'em. Nothing like a good stern talking to, to get a dictatorship to toe the line.
 
Well, I'd say that the UK has a system that can and should work, but is currently failing because of the humans involved. In Turkey there is neither a 'straight' system, nor the politicians to make the best of what they have, unfortunately.
Doesn't really matter. You know the term "losing your credentials?" That's what is with the UK right now..
 
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That'll learn'em. Nothing like a good stern talking to, to get a dictatorship to toe the line.
You'd be surprised how effective quiet diplomacy and chronic WhatsApping does. One thing dominant rulers desire is respect and recognition on the international stage. Erdogan had been asking for years, I understand, to have an audience with the Queen. Which he did, just over a year ago.
 
You'd be surprised how effective quiet diplomacy and chronic WhatsApping does. One thing dominant rulers desire is respect and recognition on the international stage. Erdogan had been asking for years, I understand, to have an audience with the Queen. Which he did, just over a year ago.
And how did that change, influence, improve, matters ?!
 
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And how did that change, influence, improve, matters ?!
A lot of influence in Turkey (counter migration, counter narcotics, counter organized crime, access for our combat air etc...plus some big trade deals. Of course, I don't know what was said during the Audience.
 
Certainly seems so, due to a dispute over the sharing of intellectual property and the involvement of a Qatari-Turkish company RR Rolls-Royce has massively scaled back its efforts to win the bid for the TF-X.

Turkey said that it wanted Turkish defence manufacturer BMC into the project and Osman Dur, chief executive of BMC Power, the BMC subsidiary that has been working on the TF-X programme, had stated that all intellectual property rights gained in the project would remain in Turkey and belong to the Turkish government. A point, not unsurprisingly, of seeming contention.

But then I am sure you are quite familiar with all that, and, the whole heaving mess is still in very fluid motion
 
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Not so much news perhaps, so much as the latest episode in the Turkish move to acquire Russian S400 missile systems. Sounds like Erdogan is going ahead with it. Training has already started on the S400. He wants F35 and S400 while playing the USA and the Russians.

From France24/AFP
Pentagon calls Turkey plan to buy Russian missile 'devastating'
Date created : 30/05/2019 - 23:45

A top Pentagon official said on Thursday the consequences would be "devastating" for Turkey's joint F-35 fighter program and its cooperation with NATO if the country bought a Russian missile defense system.

Kathryn Wheelbarger, Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs, said that Ankara's planned purchase of the S-400 system would damage Turkey's ability to work together with the Western alliance, and force Washington to hit the country with sanctions.

"Completion of this transaction would be devastating, not only to the F-35 program, on which the West has placed its modernized integrated air capability, but it would potentially rupture Turkish interoperability with NATO, a key aspect of the defense of the alliance," Wheelbarger told an audience at the Atlantic Council in Washington.

<snip>

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has rejected US pressure, calling the purchase a "done deal."

Link to full article:

Pentagon calls Turkey plan to buy Russian missile 'devastating'
 
A clash of 3 huge nationalist, populist egos; Erdogan, Putin and Trump. What could possibly go wrong?
 
And as if by magic ... an excellent article in, of all things, Bulgarian Military.

'Although they back different sides in Syria’s Idlib province, Turkey’s installation of the Russian S-400 surface-to-air missile defence system is scheduled for July. This deal has exacerbated Ankara’s tensions with Washington and jeopardised delivery of the US F-35, an advanced combat aircraft.

'The tensions have ramifications beyond the technical advantages of each weapons platform, representing a significant rupture in Turkey’s relationship with NATO, just as the trans-Atlantic alliance celebrates its 70th anniversary. In addition, the technical expertise required to operate the S-400 system will require the deployment of Russian forces to Turkey, further projecting Russian influence in the region as Moscow consolidates its control over Syria with the recent Idlib offensive. This offensive demonstrates what could happen to Turkey if it backs out of the deal.'

Between Russia and U.S. - Turkey`s S-400 Purchase Isn't About Military Hardware, It's About National Pride
 
And as if by magic ... an excellent article in, of all things, Bulgarian Military.

'Although they back different sides in Syria’s Idlib province, Turkey’s installation of the Russian S-400 surface-to-air missile defence system is scheduled for July. This deal has exacerbated Ankara’s tensions with Washington and jeopardised delivery of the US F-35, an advanced combat aircraft.

'The tensions have ramifications beyond the technical advantages of each weapons platform, representing a significant rupture in Turkey’s relationship with NATO, just as the trans-Atlantic alliance celebrates its 70th anniversary. In addition, the technical expertise required to operate the S-400 system will require the deployment of Russian forces to Turkey, further projecting Russian influence in the region as Moscow consolidates its control over Syria with the recent Idlib offensive. This offensive demonstrates what could happen to Turkey if it backs out of the deal.'

Between Russia and U.S. - Turkey`s S-400 Purchase Isn't About Military Hardware, It's About National Pride
For emphasis . . .

"In addition, the technical expertise required to operate the S-400 system will require the deployment of Russian forces to Turkey, further projecting Russian influence in the region as Moscow consolidates its control over Syria with the recent Idlib offensive. This offensive demonstrates what could happen to Turkey if it backs out of the deal".
 
For emphasis . . .

"In addition, the technical expertise required to operate the S-400 system will require the deployment of Russian forces to Turkey, further projecting Russian influence in the region as Moscow consolidates its control over Syria with the recent Idlib offensive. This offensive demonstrates what could happen to Turkey if it backs out of the deal".
Yes indeedy; life could get very interesting in NATO debating circles in the coming months!
 
Russia says it's Turkey's duty to halt fighting in Syria's Idlib - Reuters
More crying into his cornflakes for Erdogan. He won't go against Russia, but thought he could play off both as he didn't get the support he thought he deserved after a Tr F16 shot down a Su 24. Turkey's influence in the Astana talks appears to be less and less:
Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan told his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin late on Thursday that a ceasefire in Syria’s Idlib must be implemented to prevent more civilian deaths and a refugee influx to Turkey, Erdogan’s office said in a statement.

Erdogan told Putin over the phone that Syria needed a political solution, the statement said.
The Kremlin response seems to bear little resemblance to what Erdogan says took place:
The Kremlin, in its own statement on the Putin-Erdogan phone call, which was published on its official website, struck a different tone however, making it clear it believed some fighting had to continue, underlining tensions between Moscow and Ankara over the issue.

“The importance of intensifying our joint work to stabilise Idlib province was noted, including the taking of effective measures to neutralise terrorist groups,” the Kremlin said in the statement.
I suppose he could go to the EU (which he said recently he still wanted to join) and demand more money to stop the millions of Syrian refugees travelling to Europe.
 
Oops, forgot to add Turkey to the list for subsidised kit (and money).

'When the Soviet Union fell, many of the former Warsaw Pact nations founded their new militaries on the back of leftover military equipment. And in the thaw of the Cold War, many of those same nations invested in Russian gear, often cheaper than its American equivalents. But following Russia’s invasion of Ukrainian territory in 2014, those same countries found themselves scrambling to cut the cord with Russian military contractors and turn towards the West. But with limited defense budgets, that has proven easier said than done.

'To address the issue, the U.S. State Department has, in the last year, quietly launched a new program known as the European Recapitalization Incentive Program (ERIP), a new tool developed with U.S. European Command to try and speed the process of getting allied nations off Russian gear. As envisioned, it targets Albania, Bosnia, Croatia, Greece, North Macedonia and Slovakia.'


Inside America’s multimillion-dollar plan to get allies off Russian equipment
 
The die finally cast, or more posturing to squeeze more out of a future deal?

'Turkey on Tuesday confirmed it would not withdraw from a deal with Russia to buy S-400 missile defense systems despite pressure from the United States to reconsider. “We have made an agreement (with Russia). We are determined. There is nothing like backtracking from that,” Erdogan was quoted as saying by the official Anadolu news agency.'

Turkey Defies NATO Allies: Confirms S-400 Missile Deal with Russia
 

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