Turkey - a real turkey?

I think whilst we all have out opinions about Turkey, some from just what you read on the net or see on the TV and some of us have worked with the Turk military but i think the biggest so called "allied" worry is the Saudi's.
If they are not allowing US supplied MRAPS to fall into Yemeni Al-Qaeda and Salafi militias then they still hammer civil rights as the program i have just watched on TV has shown. Woman who was born in Saudi but lives in London (some famous designer) goes back there to see if it was possible to live in Saudi. Well sort of going well until she decided to drive and talk about women activists, who campaigned to get women the ability to drive, in front of the Saudi fixers who accompanied her everywhere. Well within 24 hours she had to leave the country before being arrested after the fixers reported her for literally looking at a article on her phone.
 
An interesting think-piece from Turkey. I wonder how long before Yavuz Baydar is denounced as a Gulenist and detained (if he's lucky enough to remain alive), although it does 'big up' Erdogan as a player on the world stage?

'As the winds of a new Cold War blow across the geopolitical landscape, familiar alliances are bound to be radically redefined.

'The United States is turbulent and ailing, its policies no longer coherent. Europe, increasingly at odds with its ally across the Atlantic, is anxious about its defence capabilities vis-a-vis “the East,” which is to say Russia.

'China, discreetly assertive, is waiting for its golden moment and Russia is successfully combining long-term expansionist strategies with patient, well-calculated steps to project strength.

'Three recent gatherings exposed the disarray in the world order.

'The Middle East summit in Warsaw highlighted the magnitude of the divisions in the Western bloc.

'NATO’s ministerial meeting seemed an exercise in measuring the depths of differences of opinion regarding security structures in Europe and military strategies in the Middle East.

'Meanwhile, a third summit took place in Russia and the trio gathered there was consciously defiant of the other meetings.

'With respect to all three gatherings, it is Turkey that stands out as the power-at-large, the loose cannon whose final choices will have considerable effect on the new world order taking shape.

'Ankara is undecided on almost every major issue that occupies the world powers. Turkey is torn between various positions because its internal power structure centres around one man.'

Why Turkey needs to decide where it stands as alliances shift | Ahval
 
Erdogan's brinkmanship continues.

'Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has dismissed U.S. threats to cancel the sale of high-tech F-35 jets to Turkey, saying his country will move ahead with the purchase of Russian S-400 air-defense missiles. In an interview with Kanal 24 television late Wednesday, Erdogan also said Turkey could consider purchasing the more advanced Russian S-500 system in the future.

'This week, the top U.S. military commander for Europe, Gen. Curtis Scaparrotti, told the U.S. Congress that NATO member Turkey should reconsider its plan to buy the S-400 from Russia or forfeit other future American military aircraft and systems. He said Turkey's use of the Russian surface-to-air missile defense system would be a threat to the F-35.

'It was the latest in a series of warnings the U.S. has made to Turkey over its plans to buy the S-400. The U.S. and other NATO allies have repeatedly complained about the purchase, saying it is not compatible with other allied systems and would represent a security threat.'


Read more here: Turkey dismisses US warning over S-400 Russian missiles
 
Should Turkey go ahead with the S-400, which it seems hellbent on doing, not only will it write off Turkey’s investment in the F-35, but the new Turkish pocket carrier the Anadolu and the various planned follow-ons will be looking for aircraft.
 
Interesting to see where Turkey goes with this. The Turks have a long memory, so intriguing that they're also dumping on NATO allies, when US and European BMD units remain deployed in the country.

'U.S. threats to impose sanctions on Turkey over its proposed procurement of Russian-made S-400 air defence missiles crossed a line, a spokesman for the Turkish ruling party said on Monday.

'U.S. officials have warned of grave consequences if Turkey takes delivery of S-400s it has ordered from Russia. The United States and other NATO countries say that if Turkey deployed the missiles alongside NATO jets it would allow Russia to glean valuable information that could undermine the defences of the aircraft. “The remarks have crossed the line,” state-run Anadolu news agency quoted Justice and Development Party (AKP) spokesman Ömer Çelik as saying. "These statements that are being made, are statements regarding sanctions on Turkey that are void of any vision or content,” Çelik said.

'Washington has offered to sell Turkey U.S.-made Patriot missiles instead, but warned that that deal, as well as another for U.S.-made F-35 advanced fighter jets, would be off if the Turkish government took delivery of the Russian system. But Turkey has said it would not go back on its agreement with Russia. "NATO allies should have supported Turkey, whose air space became vulnerable," Çelik said.'

Turkey says U.S. threats over Russian missiles cross a line | Ahval
 
Interesting to see where Turkey goes with this. The Turks have a long memory, so intriguing that they're also dumping on NATO allies, when US and European BMD units remain deployed in the country.

'U.S. threats to impose sanctions on Turkey over its proposed procurement of Russian-made S-400 air defence missiles crossed a line, a spokesman for the Turkish ruling party said on Monday.

'U.S. officials have warned of grave consequences if Turkey takes delivery of S-400s it has ordered from Russia. The United States and other NATO countries say that if Turkey deployed the missiles alongside NATO jets it would allow Russia to glean valuable information that could undermine the defences of the aircraft. “The remarks have crossed the line,” state-run Anadolu news agency quoted Justice and Development Party (AKP) spokesman Ömer Çelik as saying. "These statements that are being made, are statements regarding sanctions on Turkey that are void of any vision or content,” Çelik said.

'Washington has offered to sell Turkey U.S.-made Patriot missiles instead, but warned that that deal, as well as another for U.S.-made F-35 advanced fighter jets, would be off if the Turkish government took delivery of the Russian system. But Turkey has said it would not go back on its agreement with Russia. "NATO allies should have supported Turkey, whose air space became vulnerable," Çelik said.'

Turkey says U.S. threats over Russian missiles cross a line | Ahval
His economy is tanking as predicted, it's pitchforks and down to the castle time. US and NATO are convenient scapegoats here.
 
Omer Çelik was Minister for Europe and quite an Anglophile. Although Erdogan is being a bit of a Brinksmanship twat, at the end of the day they are a sovereign and democratic nation (and I’ve taken part in both referendum and election monitoring there, and public participation is greater than the UK) and they’re not taking too kindly with sanctions akin to what is being imposed on Iran and DPRK.
 
They seem not to have been taking kindly to a lot of what has been going on for some time now...hence various people in NATO and the US losing patience with them.

Then, to possibly begin thinking about withholding the support Turkey had previously been enjoying until Erdogan began his recent rampage and brinkmanship twatishness??

They seem however to be enjoying a new relationship.
NATO member Turkey holds joint exercises with Russian Navy
 
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Upping the stakes again.

'According to the Reuters sources, U.S. officials told their Turkish counterparts they will not receive further shipments of F-35 related equipment needed to prepare for the arrival of the stealthy jet. The sources also said the next shipment of training equipment, and all subsequent shipments of F-35 related material, have been canceled.'

US Halts F-35 Shipment To Turkey In Rift Over Russian S-400 Missile System
 
Erdogan backs re-run of Istanbul vote after 'organised corruption' - Reuters
The Mayoral election held in Istanbul in March, will be re-run in June. The reasons for re-running are quoted as 'organised corruption and full illegality' and nothing to do with Erdogan's party losing:
The High Election Board ruled on Monday for a fresh Istanbul mayoral contest on June 23, scrapping the March 31 vote which was lost by Erdogan’s party candidate, in a move that drew opposition accusations of dictatorship.

“We see this as an important step to strengthen our democracy,” Erdogan told lawmakers from his AK Party in parliament. “We believe there was organised corruption and full illegality in the Istanbul mayoral elections.”
 
These days if you lose run it again. ‘Democracy’ at work. Bit like Brexit here, don’t like the result run the poll again.

Putin’s/Russia’s economic situation after its adventure in the Ukraine suffered.

Turkey’s/Erdogan’s adventures look like going a similar way.

They will make good bedfellows.
 
And not forgetting that a mysteriously large number of charitable organisations based in Istanbul, and receiving funds from local government, appear to be run by AKP (Erdogans party) functionaries family members and support AKP political objectives. With, potentially, a Mayor from another party, that gravy-train was looking endangered.
 
Presumably, Her Majesty's government, will be voicing their outrage about it being an affront to democracy, through the usual diplomatic channels....

No? Didn't think so, the hypocritical throbbers

Personally, I'm getting a bit of a stiffy in anticipation of the european elections. I'm genuinely excited like a ginger kid eating blue food, on Christmas morning.
 
Presumably, Her Majesty's government, will be voicing their outrage about it being an affront to democracy, through the usual diplomatic channels....

No? Didn't think so, the hypocritical throbbers

Personally, I'm getting a bit of a stiffy in anticipation of the european elections. I'm genuinely excited like a ginger kid eating blue food, on Christmas morning.
I can assure you HMG will make its opinions known to the Governmentof Turkey, but will also regard this as a bilateral matter and not for virtue-signalling; I understand HBMA Sir Dominick Chilcot KCMG was at the Foreign Ministry in Ankara today.
 
I can assure you HMG will make its opinions known to the Governmentof Turkey, but will also regard this as a bilateral matter and not for virtue-signalling; I understand HBMA Sir Dominick Chilcot KCMG was at the Foreign Ministry in Ankara today.
I really don't think the UK is any position to lecture or "advise" any other nation about democracy at the moment. Personal opinion. Much as I hate Brexit.
 

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