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Turkey - a real turkey?

Standby for a temper tantrum from Sultan Erdogan.

'The US Treasury Department on Monday imposed sanctions on Turkey over its purchase of the Russian S-400 missile defense system.

'The sanctions, which are part of Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA), targeted Turkey's Presidency of Defense Industries (SSB), its head Ismail Demir and three other officials.

'US State Secretary Mike Pompeo said in a statement SSB knowingly engaged in a significant transaction with Rosoboronexport, Russia’s main arms export entity, by procuring the S-400 surface-to-air missile system.

"The sanctions include a ban on all US export licenses and authorizations to SSB and an asset freeze and visa restrictions on Dr. Ismail Demir, SSB’s president, and other SSB officers," he added.'


 
The immediate consequences for Turkey’s purchase of the S-400’s was exclusion from the F-35 program.

Turkey has however continued to upset both the US, NATO, France, Germany and Greece in various ways.

There was a threat of having CAATSA slapped on them by the US if Turkey/Erdogan did not alter his stance. Erdogan it appears seems to have ignored this in much the same way he previously decided that he could ignore the F-35’s being withheld.

It has taken a while however it has finally happened. The press statement below was yesterday 14 Dec 2020


The Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Treasury, has selected the following sanctions from CAATSA Section 235, as implemented by Executive Order (E.O.) 13849, to impose on SSB:

a prohibition on granting specific U.S. export licenses and authorizations for any goods or technology transferred to SSB (Section 235(a)(2));
a prohibition on loans or credits by U.S. financial institutions to SSB totaling more than $10 million in any 12-month period (Section 235(a)(3));
a ban on U.S. Export-Import Bank assistance for exports to SSB (Section 235(a)(1));
a requirement for the United States to oppose loans benefitting SSB by international financial institutions (Section 235(a)(4)); and
imposition of full blocking sanctions and visa restrictions (Section 235(a)(7), (8), (9), (11), and (12)) on Dr. Ismail Demir, president of SSB; Faruk Yigit, SSB’s vice president; Serhat Gencoglu, Head of SSB’s Department of Air Defense and Space; and Mustafa Alper Deniz, Program Manager for SSB’s Regional Air Defense Systems Directorate.


The sanctions will affect roughly 40% of Turkey’s defence imports from the United States and could have a very big effect should they continue for two or three years. Air force equipment and land systems are most vulnerable.

For the air force, critical areas the modernisation and maintenance of its F-16’s. The TF-X future fighter project and Turkey’s reliance on aircraft engines. On Army systems, the operational efficiency of radars, command-control systems and armoured vehicles.

Other National projects Turkey is involved with include the T70 general-purpose helicopter, the TF-X combat aircraft, the HurJet training aircraft, the MILGEM combat ship and the export of the T129 attack helicopters.

With his buddy Trump leaving and Biden with negative views on him little comfort there.

Merkle mentioned discussing possible sanctions on EU weapon and system exports,

France is already providing Greece with Rafales and other weapons in a clear message from Macron.


Erdogan has alienated a number of ‘allies’, obviously feeling that Turkey is capable of going it alone.

He may soon however find that he has slightly overestimated this concept, and that his neck has possibly extended a little too far for real comfort.
 
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MissingOTC

War Hero
Dangerous path to go down if you are going to selectively apply CAATSA. India, Saudia and UAE looking into this system. It's obvious the S-400 is not the motivating issue here.

I think Greece v Turkey will always be a bun fight over an Island or two, whilst Turkey is a major Middle East land power.

US sanctions will cripple much of Turkey's immediate combat ability, but they have been planning for this day for years. Really just a case of mastering engine tech (easier said than down, even Chinese are having problems here), once they do they can move forward with a lot of homegrown projects.

Erdogan has allies in Iran, Qatar and Pakistan. The economy is doing reasonably well (should grow 2.5% this year while many will experiance negative growth)
 
the TF-X combat aircraft,
Specifically does NOT involve US technology, companies or personnel, in anticipation of this happening. Hence the role of BAES and other UK companies. Prof Ismail Demir used to shuttle to and fro London to negotiate the TF-X Deal with MOD, RAF and DIT.
 
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MissingOTC

War Hero
Specifically does NOT involve US technology, in anticipation of this happening. Hence the role of BAES and other UK companies. Prof Ismail Demir used to shuttle to and fro London to negotiate the TF-X Deal with MOD, RAF and DIT.

RR not going to help out with the engine apparently
 
US sanctions will cripple much of Turkey's immediate combat ability,
No it won't. They have progressively moved away from relying on US technology since the embargo of 1974 (F-16 updates haven't relied on OEM parts for a while) and have a huge and very sophisticated export-focussed arms industry. All defence trade deals are about IP transfer and co-production; they avoid importing anything large if they can avoid it and they are self-sufficient in AFVs - their major manufacturer is 49% BAEs owned. Their involvement in the F-35 was as much to do with the 15% offset manufacturing and European engine maintenance hub as it was about operating the platform.
 

MissingOTC

War Hero
No it won't. They have progressively moved away from relying on US technology since the embargo of 1974 (F-16 updates haven't relied on OEM parts for a while) and have a huge and very sophisticated export-focussed arms industry. All defence trade deals are about IP transfer and co-production; they avoid importing anything large if they can avoid it and they are self-sufficient in AFVs - their major manufacturer is 49% BAEs owned. Their involvement in the F-35 was as much to do with the 15% offset manufacturing and European engine maintenance hub as it was about operating the platform.

Specifically if spares and modernisation of the F-16 and E-7 fleets is withdrawn. The F-16 makes up around 90% of Turkish jets. Sure the Turks can carry on for a while but I think longer run this may cripple the fleet
 
Specifically if spares and modernisation of the F-16 and E-7 fleets is withdrawn. The F-16 makes up around 90% of Turkish jets. Sure the Turks can carry on for a while but I think longer run this may cripple the fleet
As I pointed out, they have near fully indigenous capability to maintain their F-16s. E-7s are problematic but I'm not sure that they need them operationally unless they were going against a near-peer.
 

MissingOTC

War Hero
As I pointed out, they have near fully indigenous capability to maintain their F-16s. E-7s are problematic but I'm not sure that they need them operationally unless they were going against a near-peer.

I do not think that is the case, as yes, they had a F-16 line a while back but the issue will be engine spares mainly and they will need PW/GE support after a certain amount of time. Yes, they can ring up Pakistan and Iraq but their fleets are limited too
 
used to shuttle to and fro London to negotiate the TF-X Deal with MOD, RAF and DIT.
'Used to' being the point. RR pulled back due to a dispute over the sharing of intellectual property and the involvement of a Qatari-Turkish company. It has all but abandoned its efforts to win the bid for the fifth generation fighter aircraft.

Osman Dur, chief executive of BMC Power, the BMC subsidiary had declared that “all the IP and similar intellectual property rights gained within the scope of this project would remain in Turkey,” and belong to the Turkish government.
 
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MissingOTC

War Hero
Lot of it depend on parts from the US or other providers. The Tank and attack helicopter and TFX are presently stalled due to not being able to get engines.

Yup, MILGEM and T-129 Export projects now frozen
 
'Used to' being the point. RR pulled back due to a dispute over the sharing of intellectual property and the involvement of a Qatari-Turkish company. It has all but abandoned its efforts to win the bid for the fifth generation fighter aircraft.

Osman Dur, chief executive of BMC Power, the BMC subsidiary had declared that “all the IP and similar intellectual property rights gained within the scope of this project would remain in Turkey,” and belong to the Turkish government.
I knew . . . but, not many people know that . . . .

"BMC (Turkish pronunciation[beː meː ˈdʒeː]) is one of the largest commercial and military vehicle manufacturers in Turkey. Its products include commercial trucks, buses, military trucks and armoured vehicles. The company was founded in 1964 with %26 partnership of UK's British Motor Corporation. It was taken over by Çukurova Holding of Turkey in 1989, and seized by the Turkish government's TMSF (Turkish Savings Deposit Insurance Fund) in 2013. BMC has been taken over with a final bid of TL 751M, by a partnership of %51 Turkish side (Ethem Sancak & Talip Öztürk) and %49 Qatari side (QAFIC – Qatar Armed Forces Industry Committee)".

Partnership with British Motor Corporation​

Exports of Austin trucks from the UK to Turkey began in 1947. Austin merged with Morris Motors in 1952 to form the British Motor Corporation, or BMC for short. BMC Turkey was formed in 1964 in İzmir by Ergün Özakat in partnership with the British Motor Corporation. The UK-based company held 26% of the capital, with the remainder belonging to the Turkish partners.[1] Both Austin and Morris vehicles were manufactured at BMC Turkey under licence during its early years.

1966 was the first year BMC started adding truck, light truck, tractor and engine production in its product line. Turkish-made Leyland 6/98 diesel engines of 120 hp (89 kW) were used across the line by the late 1970s.[1]


Other partnerships​



BMC Levend

In later years BMC evolved and developed other models with partnerships with other firms and the successors of the British Motor Corporation (which became British Leyland).

First, the Leyland 30 was released into the market as the first full-size van.




BMC Fatih, belonging to the (otherwise unrelated) Fatih municipal government

In 1983, under a partnership with Volvo Trucks, BMC produced the Yavuz series trucks. These were followed by the Fatih series of trucks which offered Cummins diesel engines. Both the Yavuz and the Fatih used Leyland's old G-series cab, also referred to as the "Redline" or the "Bathgate" cab (after the plant where it was originally built).[1]
 
Muppet Show Swedish chefs, with stick-on '70s German pornstar 'tashes; Erdogan really is a comic after all. He's unlikely to have the last laugh, but there will certainly be more tears before the curtain comes down on his show.



'Throughout Erdogan’s political career he never took a break to ‘rest on his laurels.’ The Turkish leader is greedy for victory and for reaching his ‘neo-Ottoman’ goals, and he will use all the possibilities and methods at his disposal, even the most brutal ones.

'The military parade in Baku is Erdogan’s personal triumph, which was also aimed at hiding, among other issues, the economic problems that aroused due to Ankara’s aggressive foreign policy. Erdogan’s nationalist strategy made the U.S. impose sanctions on the Turkish defense industry on December 14.

'American experts believe that more severe restrictive measures are likely to be imposed later, as president-elect Joe Biden is expected to be tougher on Turkey than Trump, who had mostly friendly relations with Erdogan.'


 
Sultan Erdogan puts some more polish on his authoritarian credentials.

'Turkey's parliament passed a law on Dec. 27 that would ramp up oversight of foundations and associations and, according to rights groups including Amnesty International, risks limiting the freedoms of civil society organizations.

'The law allows the interior minister to replace members of organizations who are being investigated for terrorism charges, while the interior ministry can also apply to courts to halt the groups' activities under the new law. International organizations will also be included under the law and penalized accordingly.

'Parliament approved the bill - drafted by President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP), which holds a parliamentary majority with its allied Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) - early on Dec. 27, the assembly said on Twitter.

'The bill that is actually called the “Law on Preventing Financing of Proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction” was submitted by the AKP last week.

'Earlier this week, seven civil society organizations, including Human Rights Association and Amnesty, said in a statement that terrorism charges in Turkey were arbitrary, adding the law violates the presumption of innocence and punishes those whose trials are not finalized.

"Given that thousands of civil society activists, journalists, politicians, members of professional organizations are investigated within the scope of [anti-terrorism law], there is no doubt that this law will target almost all opponent associations," said the organizations.'


 

MissingOTC

War Hero
Well, looks like the UK may need Turkey more then we thought


Errr . . . Can we all agree, NOT to mention this to @PhotEx ?! ;) .
 

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