Turkey - a real turkey?

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
Probably just propaganda but....



One of the Greek comments below it says it was their Navy firing on illegal immigrants, haven't seen any official sources.

Didn't see anything remotely military in the Marmaris area when I was there, but it was a few years ago.
 
Probably just propaganda but....



One of the Greek comments below it says it was their Navy firing on illegal immigrants, haven't seen any official sources.

Didn't see anything remotely military in the Marmaris area when I was there, but it was a few years ago.
The TUR Navy main base is at Aksaz, about 10 km from Marmaris, shielded from prying eyes with very sophisticated security systems Two and a half years ago I went alongside on OCEAN for some exercises with the Turks
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
The TUR Navy main base is at Aksaz, about 10 km from Marmaris, shielded from prying eyes with very sophisticated security systems Two and a half years ago I went alongside on OCEAN for some exercises with the Turks
Shows that the Greeks aren't shy then!
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
Seems the Oruc Reis is running a seismic search pattern judging by AIS, mapping the seabed. And Turkey will be trying to sell licences in the area later this month.

Think technically they aren't breaking UNCLOS by doing so, possibly not even by selling licences. Though any drilling itself would be a clear breach and something the Greeks won't allow. Greece effectively owns the resouces within the sea and the seabed, so long as they don't actually touch that....

Does have a sub on board which could be... Though with 5 escorts around her would anyone be keen on finding out?

Meanwhile Turkish ASW aircraft repeatedly infringing Greek airspace looking for their subs.

There will be some interesting lessons learned from this. For instance what would we do if foreign vessels started surveying the Falklands or elsewhere?
 
Remembering a time, not too long ago, when Israel and Turkey were besties. Then Erdogan.

'Turkey claims it is “breaking a blockade” by sending naval ships under the guise of a research mission to the Mediterranean. For a country that is a member of NATO and which has sent drones to Libya, is busy bombing northern Iraq and occupies part of northern Syria, Turkey’s narrative that it is under “blockade” is a novel approach to fan its latest maneuvers in the Mediterranean. Never in history has Turkey been less under blockade than it is today, yet it has manufactured a crisis with Greece to lay claim to areas of the Mediterranean, asserting it wants to survey and drill for energy resources when it hasn’t even developed such resources closer to shore.

'The latest crisis in the Mediterranean appears entirely driven by Ankara’s desire to create a crisis where none existed before. Since November 2019 Ankara has signed a deal with the embattled Libyan government which is in the midst of a civil war. It has used the civil war as an excuse to wring concessions from Libya and a deal that Turkey says gives it wide rights to the Mediterranean. Those demands now run into opposing demands by Greece and Turkey over the same waters and also conflict with Cyprus energy exploration blocks that have been delineated for years.

<snip>

'There is little reason for Turkey to be surveying continental shelf so far from its borders, when it hasn’t even surveyed waters closer to home. This makes the whole story appear to be muscling and brinkmanship designed to get European countries to intervene and come up with some sort of agreement. Turkey has done the same in Syria and Libya, intervening and making large claims, only to back down and come to some kind of ceasefire with Russia or simply stop moving forward.

'It’s unclear where the clash or red line may occur in the Mediterranean, similar to the red lines Turkey encountered in Idlib in Syria or Sirte in Libya. It appears more likely that after a few weeks of crisis Turkey may go back to do something else, having successfully caused a crisis and distraction for Europe, Greece, the US and others, only to move on to some other file that Turkey has open in Iraq, Libya, Syria or Russia.'


Full article - Turkey claims it is under “blockade” in Mediterranean standoff

And an non-pro-Erdogan, Turkish view.

'As the international reactions to the escalating crisis between Turkey and Greece start to show a pattern of going in circles, the issue is whether or not a disjointed stand from within the European Union will continue to embolden Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and the group of ex-officers pushing his administration towards a stand-off with Athens. What does Turkey’s strongman want, as he displays a stop-go approach to the seismic surveys in a naval zone which Greece says falls into its territorial waters? What is the endgame?

'The overall picture remains complicated, creating a context of “balance of terror” that keeps the Turkish and Greek fleets head-to-head, raising concerns that the dispute can easily get out of control. Yet the gravity of the situation seems to be met by a remarkable aloofness by the EU - with the exception of, perhaps, France.

'Greece, backed by Cyprus, called for an emergency meeting with the EU, which was accepted. The Foreign Affairs Council Meeting will take place on Friday. We also know that Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Dendias will meet U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in Vienna on Friday. It is worth noting that Geoffrey Pyatt, the U.S. ambassador in Athens, has become a key figure in managing the crisis, through his intense diplomatic activities. More recently, Israel has also broken its silence and offered its “full solidarity” with Greece.

<snip>

'Erdoğan has placed all of his eggs in Donald Trump’s basket, so the upcoming U.S. elections has gained existential dimensions for him and his administrative structure - currently a cartel of power composed of nationalist officers, expansionist far-right “grey wolves”, and Islamists.
Erdoğan will hope that Trump wins a second term - which will embolden him immensely - but may have already calculated that he may lose. Yet, in any case, what he seems to aim - and hope - for is to extend his military presence in the eastern Mediterranean, the Aegean and in Libya, in order to be able to negotiate - from a superior position - his further legitimacy with the new U.S. president and NATO.

'Erdoğan will continue to be obstinately maximalist and defiant against the requests of the EU, because he doesn’t have the luxury of being seen as concessional at home. He needs to reproduce his swashbuckling image every day. The devilish tactics in eastern Mediterranean will therefore continue to be on a “stop-go” basis, as long as Erdoğan feels he has leeway until the November 3, 2020 U.S. elections.'


 
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Remembering a time, not too long ago, when Israel and Turkey were besties. Then Erdogan.

'Turkey claims it is “breaking a blockade” by sending naval ships under the guise of a research mission to the Mediterranean. For a country that is a member of NATO and which has sent drones to Libya, is busy bombing northern Iraq and occupies part of northern Syria, Turkey’s narrative that it is under “blockade” is a novel approach to fan its latest maneuvers in the Mediterranean. Never in history has Turkey been less under blockade than it is today, yet it has manufactured a crisis with Greece to lay claim to areas of the Mediterranean, asserting it wants to survey and drill for energy resources when it hasn’t even developed such resources closer to shore.

'The latest crisis in the Mediterranean appears entirely driven by Ankara’s desire to create a crisis where none existed before. Since November 2019 Ankara has signed a deal with the embattled Libyan government which is in the midst of a civil war. It has used the civil war as an excuse to wring concessions from Libya and a deal that Turkey says gives it wide rights to the Mediterranean. Those demands now run into opposing demands by Greece and Turkey over the same waters and also conflict with Cyprus energy exploration blocks that have been delineated for years.

'Ankara has been sending helicopters to harass the Greek islands that are near its coast and sent drones off the island of Rhodes, all in a display of strength to keep Greece on a state of alert. That alert has now gone on for weeks and Greece and Turkey appeared headed for a clash. Turkey’s general posturing doesn’t indicate that it actually wants a clash with a European country and a fellow NATO member. Instead, it wants a crisis so that it can create headlines at home about how its navy has “broken” a non-existent blockade.'


Full article - Turkey claims it is under “blockade” in Mediterranean standoff
On the 'harrasment' by helicopters and UAVs, remember that Greece claims sovereign airspace of 11NM from the coast line, and 6 nm for TTW. Turkey doesn't recognise this distinction (based on how far an aircraft engine could be heard in the 1920s) and regularly trundles through these 5 nm corridors.
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
Some garbled reports that a Greek frigate, Limnos a Kortenaer class, has rammed the Meko 200 that was escorting the Oruc Reis.



Meanwhile the french are backing Greece and preparing to surrender.

 
France putting additional pressure on Erdogan following the arms smuggling incident off Libya a couple of weeks back.

"French President Macron said he will increase military presence in the Mediterranean over "unilateral" gas explorations by Turkey. He called on Ankara to cease the explorations in order to allow a "peaceful dialogue."

'Macron asked Turkey to cease oil and gas exploration in contested waters that has spurred tensions with Greece. A statement by Macron's office said that France will "temporarily reinforce" the presence of its military to "monitor the situation in the region and mark its determination to uphold international law."

'In a call with Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, Macron raised concern over unilateral" exploration by Turkey, adding that they should "cease in order to allow a peaceful dialogue" between Turkey and Greece. Tensions have been high between the two neighboring NATO members over claims to natural gas reserves.

In July, Macron had pushed for EU sanctions against Ankara for what he called "violations" of Greek and Cypriot sovereignty over their territorial waters.'


https://www.dw.com/en/france-to-increase-mediterranean-troop-presence-over-turkey-gas-explorations/a-54544925
 

ROMFT

Old-Salt
Apart from the obvious annoyance over the warship incident, why is France, well Makron, leading the way on having a backbone vis à vis Turkey ?
& why is my Huawei suddenly only writing in italics :?
 
Apart from the obvious annoyance over the warship incident, why is France, well Makron, leading the way on having a backbone vis à vis Turkey ?
& why is my Huawei suddenly only writing in italics :?
France showing leadership of the EU, to counterbalance Merkel's previously soft attitude to Turkey? Additionally, France and Turkey are supporting opposing sides in Libya, where both want to have a controlling influence.

As to the latter, <dons tinfoil hat> perhaps the takeover has begun? When it starts translating everything into Chinese characters automatically, you'll know the takeover is complete.<tinfoil hat off>
 
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Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
Apart from the obvious annoyance over the warship incident, why is France, well Makron, leading the way on having a backbone vis à vis Turkey ?
& why is my Huawei suddenly only writing in italics :?
Total.
 
Detail on the French moves. I'm sure there are some interesting closed-door conversations going on at CAOC Torrejon today!

'Paris will send two Rafale fighter jets and the naval frigate 'Lafayette' to the Eastern Mediterranean, France’s Ministry of Armed Forces said on Thursday. The move is part of plans to increase the country’s military presence in the region.

'French President Emmanuel Macron has called on Turkey to halt oil and gas exploration in the disputed waters in that area, which has resulted in heightened tensions with Greece, Reuters said.

'On Wednesday, the French president voiced concern over “unilateral” exploration by Turkey in a call with Greek PM Kyriakos Mitsotakis.'


 
"Paris will send two Rafale fighter jets and the naval frigate 'Lafayette' to the Eastern Mediterranean . . . "

If that was us (the UK), I would imagine that the aircraft would be based on/at Cyprus?!

But this is France. Do they have a base in the Eastern Med?! Or, are the aircraft (merely) going to "loiter", and what endurance would they have to maintain a "presence" in the area?

 
"Paris will send two Rafale fighter jets and the naval frigate 'Lafayette' to the Eastern Mediterranean . . . "

If that was us (the UK), I would imagine that the aircraft would be based on/at Cyprus?!

But this is France. Do they have a base in the Eastern Med?! Or, are the aircraft (merely) going to "loiter", and what endurance would they have to maintain a "presence" in the area?
Politically, as they are also opposed to Turkish expansion, and logistically, as they operate the same type, I'd put my money on Egypt as providing the FOB.
 
Some garbled reports that a Greek frigate, Limnos a Kortenaer class, has rammed the Meko 200 that was escorting the Oruc Reis.
Some pretty ropey translation, but the only media in English (sorta) I can find covering it.

'The Greek frigate F451 Limnos collided with the Turkish ship F247 Kemal Reis in the Mediterranean, learned BulgarianMilitary.com citing the Greek news agency Armyvoice.gr.

'According to the portal, the Turkish frigate was damaged. Armyvoice.gr notes that the collision could have been the result of maneuvering in a small space in the disputed area.

'The General Staff of the National Defense of Greece (GEETHA) denied the information about the clash.'


 

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