Turkey - a real turkey?

Turkey as a NATO ‘partner’ is beginning to wear very thin.
Particularly as Turkey is a NATO Ally. That said, Turkey's willingness to interfere politically in military matters within the Alliance doesn't endear them to other Allies, even when Turkey is adhering to the rules. Turkey's ability to find the most obscure technical wording to block others, while doing similar things themselves to which no-one holds them to account, is a cause of deep frustration.
 
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If the Turks start messing with US nukes and BMD, things could get very interesting very fast!

'Turkey’s foreign minister suggested Wednesday that the United States could be barred from using two strategic air bases in retaliation to possible U.S. sanctions against his country, [news agency] Anadolu reported. Mevlut Cavusoglu comments came amid reports that U.S. lawmakers had agreed on a defense bill that also includes calls to sanction Turkey over its decision to proceed with the purchase and deployment of Russian-made S-400 missile defense systems. “In the event of a decision to sanction Turkey, the Incirlik and Kurecik airbases can be brought to the agenda,” Anadolu quoted Cavusoglu as saying. He said: “Congress members must understand that it is not possible to get anywhere with sanctions.”

'Incirlik airbase in southern Turkey has been a main base for U.S. operations in the Middle East and more recently in the fight against the Islamic State group in Syria and Iraq, while Kurecik, in eastern Turkey, is a key NATO base.'


https://apnews.com/15b2a03e66b44ff8d12f0a9376f915df
 
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'Cos it's not like there could be any malware hidden in Russian military software!

'Turkey has proposed integrating the Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile system, procured in Russia, into the NATO defense system. The Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu made a corresponding proposal.

'Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Chavoshoglu said that the Russian S-400 air defense system could be compatible with the fifth-generation American fighter F-35 and integrated into NATO’s defense system. He proposed the creation of a working group to assess how the S-400 can be combined with alliance systems.

“The concern is that the F-35 fighters and the C-400 systems are incompatible … Let’s create a working group, NATO will be able to lead it. Let the experts study this issue and make an assessment” said the head of the Turkish Foreign Ministry.

'Recall that the United States excluded Turkey from the F-35 fighter production program because of Ankara’s purchase of the S-400 air defense system. Washington has expressed concern that the Russian anti-aircraft system “may receive data on the latest fighter.”

'In turn, Turkey does not intend to abandon the S-400, according to Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, the system will be put on combat alert in April 2020. At the same time, Ankara does not exclude the acquisition of an additional batch of anti-aircraft systems. The decision on this will be made following further negotiations with Washington on fifth-generation F-35 aircraft and Patriot systems.'


 
'Cos it's not like there could be any malware hidden in Russian military software!

'Turkey has proposed integrating the Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile system, procured in Russia, into the NATO defense system. The Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu made a corresponding proposal.

'Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Chavoshoglu said that the Russian S-400 air defense system could be compatible with the fifth-generation American fighter F-35 and integrated into NATO’s defense system. He proposed the creation of a working group to assess how the S-400 can be combined with alliance systems.

“The concern is that the F-35 fighters and the C-400 systems are incompatible … Let’s create a working group, NATO will be able to lead it. Let the experts study this issue and make an assessment” said the head of the Turkish Foreign Ministry.

'Recall that the United States excluded Turkey from the F-35 fighter production program because of Ankara’s purchase of the S-400 air defense system. Washington has expressed concern that the Russian anti-aircraft system “may receive data on the latest fighter.”

'In turn, Turkey does not intend to abandon the S-400, according to Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, the system will be put on combat alert in April 2020. At the same time, Ankara does not exclude the acquisition of an additional batch of anti-aircraft systems. The decision on this will be made following further negotiations with Washington on fifth-generation F-35 aircraft and Patriot systems.'


That's a strange story, because it's not covered in any of the pro-government media and there's no mention in Çavaşoğlu's speech given on the MFA website. I used to cover the region in a previous job and you could rely on the largely government controlled media in Turkey to slavishly report anything even mildly nationalistic. The only source seems to be this rather dodgy Bulgarian site. Happy to be corrected.
 
'Cos it's not like there could be any malware hidden in Russian military software!

'Turkey has proposed integrating the Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile system, procured in Russia, into the NATO defense system. The Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu made a corresponding proposal.

'Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Chavoshoglu said that the Russian S-400 air defense system could be compatible with the fifth-generation American fighter F-35 and integrated into NATO’s defense system. He proposed the creation of a working group to assess how the S-400 can be combined with alliance systems.

“The concern is that the F-35 fighters and the C-400 systems are incompatible … Let’s create a working group, NATO will be able to lead it. Let the experts study this issue and make an assessment” said the head of the Turkish Foreign Ministry.

'Recall that the United States excluded Turkey from the F-35 fighter production program because of Ankara’s purchase of the S-400 air defense system. Washington has expressed concern that the Russian anti-aircraft system “may receive data on the latest fighter.”

'In turn, Turkey does not intend to abandon the S-400, according to Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, the system will be put on combat alert in April 2020. At the same time, Ankara does not exclude the acquisition of an additional batch of anti-aircraft systems. The decision on this will be made following further negotiations with Washington on fifth-generation F-35 aircraft and Patriot systems.'


If that really is the case, and accurate, he must be smoking something strong. Does he actually think it will happen?
 
Interesting to see where Turkey gets the money. As we know, infrastructure mega-projects don't come cheap.

Very much looks like either a vanity project or else something designed to get the Russians on board for finance with access rights to the waterway.
 
Interesting to see where Turkey gets the money.
More financial, and security, problems potentially inbound.

'Lorry loads of Turkish tomatoes may be starting to rot at the border with Russia as discord intensifies between Ankara and Moscow over Syria. Hundreds of trucks carrying 5,000 tonnes of the fruit are sitting near customs gates in no man’s land between Russia and Ukraine, Turkish media reported this week.

'The potential consequences of this logjam are clear to all those who follow the relationship between President Vladimir Putin and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan – should it come to a full political and economic slugging match over Syria’s opposition enclave of Idlib, Putin can hit Erdoğan hard. The world is watching with some trepidation as Putin and Erdoğan square up for a crisis over Syria, fearing that NATO may get drawn in. Turkey has sent troops into Idlib to back Islamist militants against Syrian President Bashar Assad’s army, which is supported by Russian firepower and financing. Moscow says the militants are terrorists linked to al Qaeda and Turkey must get out of the way after failing to disarm them.

'Tomatoes are among Turkey’s biggest contribution to a lopsided economic relationship between Ankara and Moscow. Turkey is reliant on tens of billions of dollars of natural gas that Russia exports every year – imports from the country were $22.5 billion in 2019, while Turkey exported $3.9 billion of products. Russia also sends about 7 million visitors to the country annually, making it the biggest contributor to Turkey’s tourism industry.
It was tourism and tomatoes, and Turkey’s wider economy, which fell victim to a political crisis between the two countries in 2015, when Turkey shot down a Russian military jet over the border with Syria and Erdoğan failed to meet Putin’s demands for an immediate apology. In 2016, Russian sanctions meant Turkish exports to the country decreased by 52 percent to $1.7 billion. The number of Russian tourists slumped by 77 percent to 855,000.

'Erdoğan, however, has even more to lose financially than he did in 2015 should relations with Moscow go off the rails. A currency crisis swept through Turkey’s economy in the summer of 2018. An economic recession ensued, causing Erdoğan to lose control of Turkey’s three biggest cities in local elections in March 2019. The economy is yet to fully recover and Erdoğan’s popularity ratings remain suppressed. This week, political tensions over Syria helped push the lira to its lowest level against the dollar since May. Meanwhile, Turkey’s current account deficit, which widened precariously just ahead of the 2018 currency crisis, is re-emerging as Erdoğan pump-primes economic growth with interest rate cuts and cheap loans from state-run banks.
Tomato growing is an important industry for Turkey and farmers are a key constituency for Erdoğan. He faces re-election in 2023 at the latest. But tourism revenue is even more crucial.

'The loss of millions of Russian tourists would hit the economy hard and deprive Erdoğan of the foreign currency earnings that Turkey needs to finance the current account deficit and tens of billions of dollars of foreign loans. Any failure to find that money would spell more trouble for the lira. On Thursday, Turkey granted visa exemptions to five Schengen countries plus the United Kingdom in an apparent effort to ease any fallout from a slump in Russian tourists. Russian visitors totalled 7.02 million in 2019, the most of all nationalities and eight times the low of 2016. Germany ranked second with 5.03 million visitors.

'Putin must also be aware that investor confidence in Turkey has declined rapidly since the last political crisis between the two countries. Tens of billions of dollars have exited the country after Erdoğan used a failed military coup in 2016 to tighten his political grip on the country and won enhanced presidential powers at elections in 2018. The lira fell a further 0.5 percent to 6.12 per dollar late on Friday. With relations with the United States and Europe at a low ebb due to tensions over the S-400s, Libya and disputes with EU members Greece and Cyprus, Washington and Brussels are unlikely to provide strong military and political backing for Erdoğan against Putin over Idlib.'


 
Erdogan seems to have a bit more that tomatoes to worry about

The US has confirmed that Turkey requested the Patriot air defence system be deployed in the country after Syrian regime airstrikes.

With Turkish Armed Forces coming under direct fire from Syrian regime airstrikes as Syrian Government Forces advance on areas where Turkish forces have been deployed since the US wound down its operations in the region.

Turkish officials reported that two Turkish soldiers were killed in airstrikes in Idlib, and a total, of 15 Turkish personnel were killed in February in combat with Syrian government-backed forces.


A little cheeky given Erdogan’s insistence on having the S-400’s. He really does have a knack of getting right up people’s noses. He and Putin were so cosy only a short time ago.
 
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Erdogan seems to have a bit more that tomatoes to worry about

The US has confirmed that Turkey requested the Patriot air defence system be deployed in the country after Syrian regime airstrikes.

With Turkish Armed Forces coming under direct fire from Syrian regime airstrikes as Syrian Government Forces advance on areas where Turkish forces have been deployed since the US wound down its operations in the region.

Turkish officials reported that two Turkish soldiers were killed in airstrikes in Idlib, and a total, of 15 Turkish personnel were killed in February in combat with Syrian government-backed forces.

Hardly news, as various NATO allies have, and continue to, deploy Patriot batteries into southern Turkey continuously since at least 2015.


Rather more interesting though, as a new call for assistance from the USA.

'It's not just Patriot anti-air defense missile systems that Turkey is requesting from Washington, apparently, in order to halt Russian air power over Idlib. A bombshell report in Middle East Eye has cited Turkish defense officials who say Turkey's government has asked the US to begin aerial patrols over southern Turkey along the border with Syria's Idlib province. This latest report comes on the heels of the Patriot missile request being confirmed, a major unexpected flip vis-à-vis the prior pivot to Moscow which saw the controversial transferal of the Russian S-400 systems.'

 
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Not news?

Although the Turkish Defense Ministry has blamed the Syrian government for the airstrikes that killed its troops. It has also been reported elsewhere that Russian Su-24s were possibly involved.


Which would make it rather unlikely that the US will be too enthusiastic to agree to this given the recent rise in tension over incidents between Russian and US troops.

But then you obviously feel rotting tomatoes is more newsworthy.
 
Not news?

Although the Turkish Defense Ministry has blamed the Syrian government for the airstrikes that killed its troops. It has also been reported elsewhere that Russian Su-24s were possibly involved.


Which would make it rather unlikely that the US will be too enthusiastic to agree to this given the recent rise in tension over incidents between Russian and US troops.

But then you obviously feel rotting tomatoes is more newsworthy.
Already discussed yesterday; do sober up and keep up.

 
Already discussed yesterday; do sober up and keep up.
Does previously discussed prevent a subject being quoted or mentioned again? I will grant you though, that no-one had thought rotten tomatoes had been worth mentioning as being particularly interesting.

Your personal vendetta is rather boring, not everyone is like you and apparently in a constant state of semi inebriation.

Boy that joke about your idol Nancy Pelosi really burned you up. :)

Get over it.
 
Your personal vendetta is rather boring, not everyone is like you and apparently in a constant state of semi inebriation.

Boy that joke about your idol Nancy Pelosi really burned you up. :)

Get over it.
Your personal vendetta is rather boring, not everyone is like you and apparently in a constant state of semi inebriation (from the drunken poster of 15 comments in under an hour over a bunch of threads).

Boy that joke about your idol Nancy Pelosi really burned you up (being called out as a plagiarist). :).

Get over it. (Once again, , you need to have a look at yourself in the mirror when you sober up.):rolleyes:
 
What a relief to have your drivel on ignore.
Which is why you can ignore it so much you feel the need to reply to it. Step away from the bottle, you hypocritical plagiarist.
 
Which is why you can ignore it so much you feel the need to reply to it. Step away from the bottle, you hypocritical plagiarist.
But back to this issue Skipped. I do believe Turkey will be told to kick rocks. They have been more of a pain lately then anything else. Russia and the United States seem to be in a weird detente. They avoid our forces and we avoid theirs. Potential conflict on behalf of the Turks is not anything I would strive to achieve.
 
But back to this issue Skipped. I do believe Turkey will be told to kick rocks. They have been more of a pain lately then anything else. Russia and the United States seem to be in a weird detente. They avoid our forces and we avoid theirs. Potential conflict on behalf of the Turks is not anything I would strive to achieve.
While it is about Turkey, even more it's about the continued existence of NATO. Turkey knows that the Alliance can't afford Texit, both from a geo-strategic and political POV, so can continue to twitch the (US) tiger's tail to support Erdogan's domestic agenda. I'm certain no-one wants to go to war over Syria, as if they did 9 years have already been wasted, and particularly for the democracy's, explaining 'why now' to the electorate would prove rather difficult. If Turkey were to move from the Western security orbit to a more Russia-centric place, Montreux would go by the board, significantly challenging NATO security on the Southern flank, where up to now it has largely been an immigration/crime issue.
 

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