Turkey - a real turkey?

As i have mentioned before they feature heavily in Kabul, "looking after" the Coalition side of the airport. No one else has the drive or inclination to do it and as for the other airfields the US already look after Bagram, KAF, Bastion(ish). The talians do Herat and Germany does Mes. So someone would have to step up and take that on.
That is a pinprick in the major issues at stake here.
 
It would also be interesting to know how they felt about the possible compromise of the F-35 that many of them have bought, and what they feel about Turkey’s disregard for NATO policies on commonality of weapon systems?

Probably sit back and let the US do the major share in dealing with it, much as they tend to do it in a lot of NATO behaviour.
BOWMAN radios.
 
I'm beginning to think Erdogan's "grand plan" is to leave NATO, but he hasn't got the balls to do so/say it up-front . . . so he is doing his best to piss-off everyone else - in particular the USA - so that he can deny responsibility, when he is "expelled" :( .
It would also be interesting to know how they felt about the possible compromise of the F-35 that many of them have bought, and what they feel about Turkey’s disregard for NATO policies on commonality of weapon systems?

Probably sit back and let the US do the major share in dealing with it, much as they tend to do it in a lot of NATO behaviour.

So far all countries buying the F-35 are said to be in consensus about not allowing it to be compromised by the Turkish S-400 missile buy, a position that would seem eminently logical to everyone except the Turks.
The (rest of the) members of NATO may be averse to be seen to be squabbling, and arguing amongst themselves.

The older members are well enough trained - through experience - to let the USA (policy makers) take the lead, and show initiative . . . particularly those other members that may not be meeting their commitments such as Germany.

However, I doubt the newer members will be quite so patient - or deferential - particularly those with memories of their recent occupation/subjugation by the WARSAW PACT forces.

It may not (yet) be articulated openly, but all members - particularly those with memories of their recent occupation/subjugation by the WARSAW PACT forces - must be wondering what would be the reaction from the rest of NATO, if they were to behave unacceptably, as is Turkey (Edited to add . . .), with surprisingly, Russian maintenance technicians now permanently housed/located/stationed on Turkey's NATO military bases!!

Others have said there is no provision to expel a country from NATO membership.

Although there may not be a “formal” mechanism, it is suggested that once Turkey are removed/cut-out of all communications, not invited to meetings, and when other Members’ forces are withdrawn from Turkey, then Turkey will have effectively "left", be outside of, NATO.
 
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The (rest of the) members of NATO may be averse to be seen to be squabbling, and arguing amongst themselves.

The older members are well enough trained - through experience - to let the USA (policy makers) take the lead, and show initiative . . . particularly those other members that may not be meeting their commitments such as Germany.

However, I doubt the newer members will be quite so patient - or deferential - particularly those with memories of their recent occupation/subjugation by the WARSAW PACT forces.

It may not (yet) be articulated openly, but all members - particularly those with memories of their recent occupation/subjugation by the WARSAW PACT forces - must be wondering what would be the reaction from the rest of NATO, if they were to behave unacceptably, as is Turkey.

Others have said there is no provision to expel a country from NATO membership.

Although there may not be a “formal” mechanism, it is suggested that once Turkey are removed/cut-out of all communications, not invited to meetings, and when other Members’ forces are withdrawn from Turkey, then Turkey will have effectively left NATO.
Take whatever comfort you can in that.:eek:
 
Except that France doesn't have an operational, let alone exportable, 5th gen capability.
I doubt the Turks would really care one way or the other about that. Rafale is a pretty nice plane and the key deciding factor for the Turks will be local manufacture and manufacturing technology transfer to the Turkish aerospace industry. That is after all why they chose S400 over Patriot.

Rafale would make the Turks vastly superior to anything Iran, Iraq, or Syria are likely to have for the foreseeable future, and a match for the Saudis in terms of technology (I suspect Turkish pilots would then put the balance in favour of Turkey). The Greeks would like to a couple of dozen F35s, but they have no money and want the Americans to loan them the money to pay for them.

Rafale also comes from a supplier who won't try to tie as many political and diplomatic strings to it as the Americans would.

Rafale - the Turks get an excellent plane from a key NATO partner, the Turkish defence industry gets a boost, and the Americans no longer have an excuse to complain about the Turks not buying Patriots. Sounds like win-win all around.
 
Problem has been that the various recent collaborative ventures the Turks have been involved with the technology transfers they want have been unacceptable to the partner companies involved. The Turks want all the win, and the partners are pulling out.
 
That is a pinprick in the major issues at stake here.
In the big picture it is indeed small but dont discount it as immaterial. As its a NATO mission out in Afghanistan, Turkey is one of the major partners there. The big NATO flag flies alongside the Turkish one outside the Turkish run TAAC-C HQ so within Afghanistan when one of your major players wants to lean to the other side, people get jittery.
 
It is by no means immaterial at all. Erdogan has been actively seeking to expand Turkey's role in Afghanistan by stepping up diplomatic, developmental, and military engagements in the country. The recent Turkish interests in Afghanistan a transformation of Turkish foreign policy in recent years.

With Erdogan's desire of regional leadership, Turkey has been trying to expand its influence through assertive involvement in various neighbouring regions. Afghanistan is no exception and diplomatic initiatives focussed on improving bilateral relations between Kabul and Islamabad.

Erdogan feels that Turkey enjoys advantages due to a shared Islamic religion, good relations and a lack of local favorites in their internal political matters. Although the U.S.-led attack in 2001 against the Taliban regime was not popular in Turkey it decided to offer troops as a NATO member state and has maintained a military presence there since.

Actively engaged in the training of Afghan security forces and logistical assistance to other international forces, the Turkish military however avoided deploying its troops in direct counter-insurgency operations, and has only taken part in post-conflict peace-building measures.

When Pakistan fell out of favour with the US and was trying to protect its Taliban proxies Pakistani Prime Minister Shahid Abbasi and Erdogan had talks on the revival of the Pakistan-Afghanistan-Turkey trilateral process.

Pakistani Foreign Minister Khawaja Muhammad Asif held discussions with his counterparts in China, Russia, Iran, and Turkey on the Afghan question. Ankara feels the leverage Pakistan could exercise in Afghan domestic affairs is useful and is happy to co-operate with them.
Turkey Sees Expanding Role in Afghanistan
 
Funny but you do not see so much commercial interest from UK, US or other nations deployed. I highlight the word deployed from a military sense. Some do their military role better than others.
 
Diplomacy in the Trump era. Nothing like a bit of coercive blackmail to make others agree with your point of view! It was interesting to watch this as a news item on Greek TV when the whole exploration and drilling issue broke about 6 weeks ago; Saturday morning tele with video of the Turkish survey ships interspersed with surface-to-surface missile firings. With it all being in Greek and without sub-titles, I initially thought the worst.

'Turkey will continue drilling for gas in waters off Cyprus if the internationally recognised Greek Cypriot government does not accept a cooperation proposal put forward by Turkish Cypriots, Ankara’s foreign minister said on Sunday. Mevlut Cavusoglu said a proposal by Turkish Cypriot leader Mustafa Akinci that both parties on the divided island cooperate in exploration and exploitation of gas could contribute to stability and peace in the eastern Mediterranean.

'Tensions in the region have risen after Turkey told energy firms not to work with the Greek Cypriot government, and sent two ships to drill off the island. Cyprus issued arrest warrants for the crew of one of the ships, and the European Union is discussing curbing contacts and funds for Turkey in response.'


Turkey will drill for gas until Greek Cypriots accept plan - minister - Reuters
 
More confrontational 'diplomacy' by the current US administration. An interesting turnaround, which will doubtless raise more calls of unfair dealing from Turkey given the previous Russian SAM buy. The Greeks must be wetting themselves with glee.

'The US House of Representatives has accepted an amendment to the National Defence Authorisation Act which would end the 32-year arms embargo imposed on Southern Cyprus.

'Since 1987, the embargo has been in effect in order to “prevent the accumulation of arms that would hamper diplomatic efforts to unite the island again,” and has until now been a tool to ensure the maintenance of the peace between the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) and Southern Cyprus. Relations between the US and Southern Cyprus were also rocked by the latter’s purchase of the S-300 air defence system from Russia in 1997. The amendment was put forward by Congressman David Cicilline who stated that the “outdated” embargo does not reflect the importance and strength of US relations with Southern Cyprus which he called a “key ally in the fight against terrorism and emerging threats in Europe.” '

US to end arms embargo on Southern Cyprus, as Turkey continues drilling for oil
 

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