Tuppenny Trident, the Scottish factor

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by alib, Mar 6, 2012.

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  1. On Arms Control Wonk Tuppenny Trident? BY JEFFREY
    I doubt the Scotts will actually be dumb enough to relieve the English tax payer of the burden of supporting them, tartan patriotism has its limits but my bold, where the Trident fleet would go is perhaps less interesting than how much would this relocation cost and how dense is the nimby population there?

    Speaking of defense pork in Scotland I assume the slow handed peacenik Sweaties are still going to be expensively building RN aircraft carriers and there is no prospect of those jobs won't moving South?
     
  2. seaweed

    seaweed LE Book Reviewer

    This particular groundhog emerges blinking from his burrow to find the same silly arguments to the effect that there can be such a thing as a credible nuclear deterrent that is not submarine and ICBM based still floating around, even though they have all been comprehensively and repeatedly rubbished over the years.

    The idea that the US would unleash its own deterrent to prevent a threatened nuclear attack aimed solely at the UK, and so invite a retaliatory nuclear attack on the US, strains credibility. Unlike all other NATO countries, we are uniquely geographically positioned to present a tempting target to an enemy which does not actually want to use our island afterwards; nuking UK as a sort of worked example would cause the rest of continental Europe to surrender pretty smartly, and would also take out the main platform for US reinforcement, thereby removing the US from what would then be a purely European war.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Oh look, yet another Scotland bashing thread. The sooner we are independent of you bitter and twisted English fucks the better.

    Jellied eels anyone?
     
  4. Well if that's your attitude............
     
  5. So you are saying the UK is of vital strategic interest to the US as an entry point to the European landmass but the Septics are so timid that they'll sit by while it gets nuked. The former is flawed there are many ways into Europe and the US has basing everywhere. The UK isn't as beloved as strategically useless Israel but a nuclear assault on it would be direct affront to US power. I think you underestimate how belligerent the cousins still are. Unlike the UK the country is huge, losing the Eastern seaboard for instance would be seen as no bad thing by a lot of folks in the Red States. Likewise DC would not look well on London or any other of its allies stepping out of line and using its nukes independently, this even applies to Israel on Iran.

    Britain's main defense since WWII has rested on the alliance with DC, as the skinflint UK shed it's millitary capabilities its sovereignty in this respect has been steadily compromised, it is now behaves as an auxiliary to US power. Given this situation Trident only really makes sense if DC is out of the picture and that is a contingency to consider. In the Cold War there actually was a fair chance it could be taken out preemptively by the USSR or as is more likely these days turned Paultard and back to it traditional isolationist position or subject to a sudden collapse like the USSR. Not likely but the unlikely often happens, just depends on what other capabilities you are prepared to sacrifice to mitigate that risk with a very expensive last ditch defensive option.

    The more practical use of nuclear weapons is that they support the aggressive projection of conventional power such as a carrier group. As nukes proliferate to smaller powers this is an important point to consider, our iPods are already endangered by a non-nuclear Iran. However the shambles of the UK's carrier program suggests this is a fading imperial dream and that leaves Trident as a mostly symbolic nuclear feathery hat. Not useless but certainly less useful on the likely world stage than a few air mobile brigades that are liable to end up on the scrap heap.

    Would Scottish independence really be a nail in the coffin for Trident? No, it would probably mean permanent Tory dominance of Westminster and while the memory of Mrs T remains her baby Trident will live on in some form regardless of cost and utility. Because finally Britain's deterrent is about the old wars of party politics not defense and it is more beloved by the party faithful than the rest of the military which will be left to rot.
     
  6. I've always thought of Scotland as offshore Antrim.
     
  7. Has anyone here actually tried them? They look disgusting! One of my Brit colleagues (who grew up in the East End) took me to a supposedly traditional and nice pie and mash shop here in London. After one look at the eels, I said no thank you and just had some pie. Really good too.

    I am not that squeamish per se, when it comes to trying out new foods, but I certainly didn't want to try them.
     
  8. Jellied eels - without doubt the work of the devil.
     
  9. Bouillabaisse

    Bouillabaisse LE Book Reviewer

    Nah. Where's the sin in eating jellied eels? The devil invented pastries and cake.
     
  10. Tried them once - Jellied ells that is. Spewed my ring like the possessed girl in the exorcist. Mind you, that might have been down to the 13 pints of London Pride that went before.
     
  11. Never tried them, just looking at them would gag a maggot.
     
  12. "The sooner we are independent of you bitter and twisted English fucks the better. "

    True Jock, now please do the honorable thing and go.

    john
    Very Bitter and Unbelievably Twisted.
     
  13. It's pretty funny as out of the Mil I've never met an English person that even registered Scotland, let alone was bitter or twisted about you's. Most never knew the old PM was a sweaty. So bitter and twisted doesn't really tally up, we have far more things to worry about, like Poles,
    Lithuanians, Pakistanis,etc. I will let you know when our give 'o'**** meter reaches 'Be bitter and twisted about jocks' but in the mean time don't make sweeping statements. You're still our bezzers!

    Just to clarify, I like the union. Chalk and cheese maybe, but a mighty union it makes.

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