Trump moves to ban bump stocks

#81
There is a fairly easy solution to the problem.

Anyone found with a firearm in their possesion during commission of a crime (any crime) gets a mandatory life imprisonment.
If you use or threaten to use a firearm during commission of a crime then you hang.

Simple.

In 2 generations having a gun would be looked on the same way as it is in the UK.
An odd but fairly harmless hobby.

Ok so you would need a lot of money and a fairly excessive dictatorship but it could be done if the will was really there.
I can tell you the left would be against that right away...its racist of course and unfairly impacts the African American /people of color. They actually used that argument on the subject of Security cameras at schools - racist due to the high number of blacks who are affected* by them.

*punsihed.
 
#82
I can tell you the left would be against that right away...its racist of course and unfairly impacts the African American /people of color. They actually used that argument on the subject of Security cameras at schools - racist due to the high number of blacks who are affected* by them.

*punished.
Plus it would have zero effect on mass shootings and gun ownership. Your NRA/GOA/2nd amendment gun owners are the most law abiding in the country. They know the ramifications of breaking the law and legal ownership.
 
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#83
(Fag packet calculations; all figures from Wiki sources)

About 25% of US citizens (all ages) own guns, so thats about 81 million individuals (mostly adults).

There have been about 146 "mass killings" (at least four victims) since 1967 - fifty years.

If you set off the excessive 50-year sample vs the fact that mass killings have accelerated in recent years, then thats still well over 1/2 million declared gun owners per "mass shooter" (albeit some incidents included more than one shooter).

Fag packet figures, but the point is that, for every sick individual who brassed up a school or workplace, 500,000+ individuals bore their legal and social responsibilities perfectly well.

Hence any change to US firearms law would in effect punish the 500,000 for the sins of the one. This is arguably a poor way to manage a problem, and a major reason that even non-gun owners are resistant to knee-jerk legislation. In a country very sensitive to the question of civil liberties, mass punishment of the law-abiding is not likely to be tolerated.*



*In UK, by contrast, where ancient civil liberties have been routinely torn up in the past couple of decades, it is common practice of government to punish the law-abiding majority for the sins of the minority.
 
#84
There is a fairly easy solution to the problem.

Anyone found with a firearm in their possesion during commission of a crime (any crime) gets a mandatory life imprisonment.
If you use or threaten to use a firearm during commission of a crime then you hang.

Simple.
What problem do you think that would solve?
 
#85
What problem do you think that would solve?
Feck me what a div. Me not you.
I forgot step one.
Ban the sale of guns to anyone not specifically licensed to own one and you can only have a licence if you have a proven need for one.

Bit like civilised countries do at the moment.

Then you start with the draconian punishments and in the end you will weed out most (never all) of the people who would use a gun illegally.
 
#86
There is a fairly easy solution to the problem.

Anyone found with a firearm in their possesion during commission of a crime (any crime) gets a mandatory life imprisonment.
If you use or threaten to use a firearm during commission of a crime then you hang.

Simple.

In 2 generations having a gun would be looked on the same way as it is in the UK.
An odd but fairly harmless hobby.

Ok so you would need a lot of money and a fairly excessive dictatorship but it could be done if the will was really there.
I think given the choice between the current threat to their way of life from gun violence and the threat to their way of life from 'a fairly excessive dictatorship' most Americans would settle for the gun violence.
 
#87
I think given the choice between the current threat to their way of life from gun violence and the threat to their way of life from 'a fairly excessive dictatorship' most Americans would settle for the gun violence.
Which is why it would need to be a bit dictatorship like.
 
#88
Feck me what a div. Me not you.
I forgot step one.
Ban the sale of guns to anyone not specifically licensed to own one and you can only have a licence if you have a proven need for one.

Bit like civilised countries do at the moment.

Then you start with the draconian punishments and in the end you will weed out most (never all) of the people who would use a gun illegally.

So how will you eliminate the 300+ million firearms already out there, and which are mostly unrecorded?

The only people who'd voluntarily hand in their guns would be the very same ones who'd never commit any crime, let alone a mass shooting.

Millions more would simply not accept that the government has a right to remove their firearms.

In UK we still turn up firearms that have sat in someone's attic for the 100 years since WW1. How long do you think it would take US to locate (say) 50-60 million guns that have been buried in people's back yards? Centuries?
 
#89
Feck me what a div. Me not you.
I forgot step one.
Ban the sale of guns to anyone not specifically licensed to own one and you can only have a licence if you have a proven need for one.

Bit like civilised countries do at the moment.

Then you start with the draconian punishments and in the end you will weed out most (never all) of the people who would use a gun illegally.
I suspect that any such system would fall foul of the law of unintended consequences.
For a start, given the number of guns in circulation, size of country etc., self defence would remain a valid reason to own a gun, so anyone could still buy firearms, so all you are doing is raising further bureaucracy around firearms and still not cutting out the whackos.

Then the draconian laws will only cut down on the ‘problem’ of criminals surrendering. Notwithstanding that the spree killers rarely seem bothered about surviving, a blanket death penalty or long prison terms are only going to encourage killing witnesses and fighting to the end. Your hangman’s noose would not see much use.
 
#90
So how will you eliminate the 300+ million firearms already out there, and which are mostly unrecorded?

The only people who'd voluntarily hand in their guns would be the very same ones who'd never commit any crime, let alone a mass shooting.

Millions more would simply not accept that the government has a right to remove their firearms.

In UK we still turn up firearms that have sat in someone's attic for the 100 years since WW1. How long do you think it would take US to locate (say) 50-60 million guns that have been buried in people's back yards? Centuries?
Never mentioned taking weapons off people.
You can keep the ones you have.
Just can't legally buy or sell any more.
Commit a crime while carrying a gun though..
 
#91
I suspect that any such system would fall foul of the law of unintended consequences.
For a start, given the number of guns in circulation, size of country etc., self defence would remain a valid reason to own a gun, so anyone could still buy firearms, so all you are doing is raising further bureaucracy around firearms and still not cutting out the whackos.

Then the draconian laws will only cut down on the ‘problem’ of criminals surrendering. Notwithstanding that the spree killers rarely seem bothered about surviving, a blanket death penalty or long prison terms are only going to encourage killing witnesses and fighting to the end. Your hangman’s noose would not see much use.
Possibly.
What they have at present doesn't work though so possibly is better than that?
 
#93
(Fag packet calculations; all figures from Wiki sources)

About 25% of US citizens (all ages) own guns, so thats about 81 million individuals (mostly adults).

There have been about 146 "mass killings" (at least four victims) since 1967 - fifty years.

If you set off the excessive 50-year sample vs the fact that mass killings have accelerated in recent years, then thats still well over 1/2 million declared gun owners per "mass shooter" (albeit some incidents included more than one shooter).

Fag packet figures, but the point is that, for every sick individual who brassed up a school or workplace, 500,000+ individuals bore their legal and social responsibilities perfectly well.

Hence any change to US firearms law would in effect punish the 500,000 for the sins of the one. This is arguably a poor way to manage a problem, and a major reason that even non-gun owners are resistant to knee-jerk legislation. In a country very sensitive to the question of civil liberties, mass punishment of the law-abiding is not likely to be tolerated.*



*In UK, by contrast, where ancient civil liberties have been routinely torn up in the past couple of decades, it is common practice of government to punish the law-abiding majority for the sins of the minority.
Painful as it was for the law abiding, it worked!
 
#94
Feck me what a div. Me not you.
I forgot step one.
Ban the sale of guns to anyone not specifically licensed to own one and you can only have a licence if you have a proven need for one.

Bit like civilised countries do at the moment.

Then you start with the draconian punishments and in the end you will weed out most (never all) of the people who would use a gun illegally.
Which is why it would need to be a bit dictatorship like.
Congratulations - you just made the argument for the 2nd amendment and keeping all those guns.
 
#95
Possibly.
What they have at present doesn't work though so possibly is better than that?
I would think not.

Consider, for example, the life sentence for committing a crime while in possession of a gun. Traffic offences?
 
#97
I was on holiday recently and met two lovely couples from the us.
All of them hardworking professional, law abiding people.
Turns out we all had a mutual interest in shooting and the conversation inevitably turned around to the issue of gun control.
All of them agreed that if the feds turned up to confiscate their firearms then it would be very messy.
They really felt that strongly about the principle that they were willing to go out in a hail of bullets than be dictated to by the government
 
#98
I was on holiday recently and met two lovely couples from the us.
All of them hardworking professional, law abiding people.
Turns out we all had a mutual interest in shooting and the conversation inevitably turned around to the issue of gun control.
All of them agreed that if the feds turned up to confiscate their firearms then it would be very messy.
They really felt that strongly about the principle that they were willing to go out in a hail of bullets than be dictated to by the government
Its something very different from the U.K - Culturally the American citizens have an independent/ rebellious/skeptical/suspicious streak in them.
 
#99
What worked? UK gun crime has increased in inverse proportion to tightened restrictions on legal gun ownership.
Really. Where's the spree shootings? I'll guess most of it is gang related, or turf wars. Our home grown jihad nut jobs seem to struggle to get hold of guns.
 
I was on holiday recently and met two lovely couples from the us.
All of them hardworking professional, law abiding people.
Turns out we all had a mutual interest in shooting and the conversation inevitably turned around to the issue of gun control.
All of them agreed that if the feds turned up to confiscate their firearms then it would be very messy.
They really felt that strongly about the principle that they were willing to go out in a hail of bullets than be dictated to by the government
Suspect there are an awful lot of blowhards among the "cold, dead hand" types. Given a choice between living and keeping their shiny toys, most would forgo the toys.

It would take decades for the confiscation (or compulsory government purchase?) of semi-automatic rifles to have an impact on mass shootings, but it would do so eventually.
 

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