Trump moves to ban bump stocks

[QUOTE="Bravo_Bravo, post: 8434221, member: 296”]




You've never served in HM Armed Forces,

[/QUOTE]


Well, at least he’s been a real soldier, no a one evening a week pretend one
 
Most of their weapons didn’t.
Came from Libya didn't they? Paid for by their supporters in the US.

The did manage to get a few from the US though.

American arms
In the early stages of the Troubles, during the period 1969–1972, the Provisional IRA was poorly armed. They had access to weapons remaining from the IRA's failed Border Campaign between 1956 and 1962, but these weapons were outdated and unsuitable for a modern campaign.[4]

After 1969, and the split with the Official IRA, the Provisional IRA gained control of a majority of the stockpiled weaponry still held from previous IRA campaigns. They found that the stockpiles consisted mostly of World War II small arms ranging from Lee–Enfield and M1 Garand and M1 carbine rifles, to MP40 and Thompson submachine guns (SMG), plus Bren light machine guns (LMG) and Webley revolvers.[5] The Garands were used in IRA operations as late as the summer of 1976, when a British army patrol in South Armagh was fired on by one of these rifles loaded with armour-piercing ammunition.[6]

To continue and escalate their armed campaign, the IRA needed to be better equipped, which meant securing modern small arms. In previous campaigns weapons had been secured before hostilities commenced via raids on British Army and even Irish Army weapons depots. In the 1969–1971 period this was no longer feasible.[7] By 1972, the IRA had large quantities of modern small arms, particularly Armalite rifles, manufactured and purchased in the United States. The AR-18 rifle in particular was found to be very well suited to the Provisionals' purposes as its small size and folding stock meant that it was easy to conceal. Moreover, it was capable of rapid fire and fired a high velocity round which provided great "stopping power".[8]

The IRA's main gun runner in the US was George Harrison, an IRA veteran, resident in New York since 1938. Harrison bought guns for the IRA from a Corsican arms dealer named George de Meo, who had connections in organised crime. Joe Cahill acted as the contact between NORAID and Harrison. In 1971, the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) had already seized 700 modern weapons from the IRA, including 2 tonnes of high explosive and 157,000 rounds of ammunition, most of which were of US manufacture.[9]



The Armalite AR-18 – obtained by the IRA from the US in the early 1970s and an emotive symbol of its armed campaign
Harrison spent an estimated US$1 million in the 1970s purchasing over 2,500 guns for the IRA.[10] According to Brendan Hughes, an IRA member who later became Officer Commanding of the IRA inside Long Kesh prison, the IRA smuggled small arms from the United States by sea on Queen Elizabeth 2 from New York via Southampton,[8] through Irish members of her crew, until the network was cracked down on by the FBI in the 1980s.[11] These Queen Elizabeth 2 shipments included M16, CAR-15, AR-18 and AR-15 Armalite rifles, accompanied by Browning pistols and Smith & Wesson pistols and revolvers and were driven from Southampton to Belfast in small consignments.[citation needed]

In the late 1970s, another IRA member, Gabriel Megahey, was sent to the United States to acquire more arms and he was able to procure more AR-15 Armalites, plus a number of Heckler & Koch rifles and other weapons. Again, the purchase of these weapons was funded by Irish American republicans.[12] A batch of M60 machine guns was imported in 1977.[13]

Harrison was arrested by the FBI in 1981, but acquitted at his trial.[10] Megahey was arrested by the FBI in 1982 after a successful "sting operation", where he was trying to purchase surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) for the IRA, and sentenced to seven years in prison.[12]

In 1984, the FBI warned Ireland that a major IRA arms shipment was underway from the US, and that the weaponry would be transferred to an Irish fishing trawler in the Atlantic. Subsequently, Irish authorities discovered that arms ship was a vessel named Marita Ann, allegedly after a tip off Sean O'Callaghan, a Garda Síochána intelligence agent within the I.R.A.[10] Three Irish Naval Service ships confronted the vessel off the coast of County Kerry, and prevented its escape by firing warning shots. A team of naval personnel and Garda officers boarded the ship, arresting the crew of five and confiscating seven tons of military equipment, as well as medications, training manuals, and communications equipment.[14] The weapons had been donated by the South Boston Winter Hill Irish Mob.
 
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No you're not being phased out are you?
Google car piccy
Not yet I'm not. Those still need a driver, don't they?
Given the death toll on the roads, I would have thought that you'd be all over banning the dangerous inanimate objects controlled by irrational humans as quickly as possible.
Even if self-driving cars were available tomorrow, how long do you think it would be before 1) all human driven vehicles were phased out and 2) all road deaths ceased.

If you are prepared to wait a number of years to bring in optional safety systems (none of the systems you have described are mandatory for road vehicles, are they?) to slightly reduce road casualties, why are you so hot to flat-out ban firearms immediately?

I mean, we're not banning cars, just making them safer. How about some thoughts in that direction with regards to firearms.
 
I do, it’s called risk reward management.

You are more likely to be killed on the road driving to the shops in the UK than shot in the USA. Riding a motorbike on the road in the UK is like walking through Compton with a KKK t shirt in the risk reward stakes.
Do you stop driving to the shops?
You are a complete idiot.

List of countries by traffic-related death rate - Wikipedia
List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

UK road fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants: 2.9
US gun fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants: 10.54
 
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Not yet I'm not. Those still need a driver, don't they?
Given the death toll on the roads, I would have thought that you'd be all over banning the dangerous inanimate objects controlled by irrational humans as quickly as possible.
Even if self-driving cars were available tomorrow, how long do you think it would be before 1) all human driven vehicles were phased out and 2) all road deaths ceased.

If you are prepared to wait a number of years to bring in optional safety systems (none of the systems you have described are mandatory for road vehicles, are they?) to slightly reduce road casualties, why are you so hot to flat-out ban firearms immediately?

I mean, we're not banning cars, just making them safer. How about some thoughts in that direction with regards to firearms.
No they don't need a driver in some situations and locations already in the US.

If you don't think it's going to happen, the car makers are already bringing standard road cars closer to driverless.

While the transition to autonomous vehicles will be slow, the very technology that drives these vehicles may already be in your car. Mercedes and Audi recently unveiled Traffic Jam Assist, which adds automatic steering to their adaptive cruise control. This lets the car drive itself at speeds up to 37 miles per hour. Cadillac is developing Super Cruise, a technology that allows the car to deal with the gas, braking, and steering. Experts predict that we could see fully autonomous vehicles on the road within 10 years.
 
I'll add that to the defence for owning one to the others so far, which consist of...

"Because I can"

"Why not"

and

"Since we have had them since 1903 why do YOU care?"

It's not the strongest of arguments.
Why would anyone need any sort of defence for for owning a legal firearm?
 
Came from Libya didn't they? Paid for by their supporters in the US.

The did manage to get a few from the US though.

American arms
In the early stages of the Troubles, during the period 1969–1972, the Provisional IRA was poorly armed. They had access to weapons remaining from the IRA's failed Border Campaign between 1956 and 1962, but these weapons were outdated and unsuitable for a modern campaign.[4]

After 1969, and the split with the Official IRA, the Provisional IRA gained control of a majority of the stockpiled weaponry still held from previous IRA campaigns. They found that the stockpiles consisted mostly of World War II small arms ranging from Lee–Enfield and M1 Garand and M1 carbine rifles, to MP40 and Thompson submachine guns (SMG), plus Bren light machine guns (LMG) and Webley revolvers.[5] The Garands were used in IRA operations as late as the summer of 1976, when a British army patrol in South Armagh was fired on by one of these rifles loaded with armour-piercing ammunition.[6]

To continue and escalate their armed campaign, the IRA needed to be better equipped, which meant securing modern small arms. In previous campaigns weapons had been secured before hostilities commenced via raids on British Army and even Irish Army weapons depots. In the 1969–1971 period this was no longer feasible.[7] By 1972, the IRA had large quantities of modern small arms, particularly Armalite rifles, manufactured and purchased in the United States. The AR-18 rifle in particular was found to be very well suited to the Provisionals' purposes as its small size and folding stock meant that it was easy to conceal. Moreover, it was capable of rapid fire and fired a high velocity round which provided great "stopping power".[8]

The IRA's main gun runner in the US was George Harrison, an IRA veteran, resident in New York since 1938. Harrison bought guns for the IRA from a Corsican arms dealer named George de Meo, who had connections in organised crime. Joe Cahill acted as the contact between NORAID and Harrison. In 1971, the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) had already seized 700 modern weapons from the IRA, including 2 tonnes of high explosive and 157,000 rounds of ammunition, most of which were of US manufacture.[9]



The Armalite AR-18 – obtained by the IRA from the US in the early 1970s and an emotive symbol of its armed campaign
Harrison spent an estimated US$1 million in the 1970s purchasing over 2,500 guns for the IRA.[10] According to Brendan Hughes, an IRA member who later became Officer Commanding of the IRA inside Long Kesh prison, the IRA smuggled small arms from the United States by sea on Queen Elizabeth 2 from New York via Southampton,[8] through Irish members of her crew, until the network was cracked down on by the FBI in the 1980s.[11] These Queen Elizabeth 2 shipments included M16, CAR-15, AR-18 and AR-15 Armalite rifles, accompanied by Browning pistols and Smith & Wesson pistols and revolvers and were driven from Southampton to Belfast in small consignments.[citation needed]

In the late 1970s, another IRA member, Gabriel Megahey, was sent to the United States to acquire more arms and he was able to procure more AR-15 Armalites, plus a number of Heckler & Koch rifles and other weapons. Again, the purchase of these weapons was funded by Irish American republicans.[12] A batch of M60 machine guns was imported in 1977.[13]

Harrison was arrested by the FBI in 1981, but acquitted at his trial.[10] Megahey was arrested by the FBI in 1982 after a successful "sting operation", where he was trying to purchase surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) for the IRA, and sentenced to seven years in prison.[12]

In 1984, the FBI warned Ireland that a major IRA arms shipment was underway from the US, and that the weaponry would be transferred to an Irish fishing trawler in the Atlantic. Subsequently, Irish authorities discovered that arms ship was a vessel named Marita Ann, allegedly after a tip off Sean O'Callaghan, a Garda Síochána intelligence agent within the I.R.A.[10] Three Irish Naval Service ships confronted the vessel off the coast of County Kerry, and prevented its escape by firing warning shots. A team of naval personnel and Garda officers boarded the ship, arresting the crew of five and confiscating seven tons of military equipment, as well as medications, training manuals, and communications equipment.[14] The weapons had been donated by the South Boston Winter Hill Irish Mob.
The weapons from Libya were 'donated', not bought.

What is really relevant to this thread and the current situation are those examples of how many firearms PIRA were able to illegally source within the US. The sheer number of weapons available on the black market are the main reason why people are saying that new laws on firearms purchases are not going to stop criminals, or potential spree shooters, from getting hold of weapons. They are going to make it a little more difficult for potential spree shooters but they will still be able to get weapons if they want them.
 
You mean terrorists who get their semi autos from the US ? they tend to massacre by explosives .
You were implying that because of UK legislation, gun massacres had not happened.. my point was that the law has not stopped illegal use of semiauto weapons, and that they are still used by criminals in the UK. I make no distinction between terrorists and criminals, and shooting folk with firearms has always been illegal in most cases...

Nutters who want to kill/maim people will always find ways to do it.. bombs/vehicles/acid/poison/BFO knives - yer still dead or maimed regardless of the means... The only effective means of control is through the perpetrator and not the means, or the context..

The real issue here is we have not got the balance between the rights of the individual and the rights of the rest of society correct. In my book you do not get the right until and unless you demonstrate the responsibility that goes with the right.. and take the consequence if you make the wrong decision. Far far too often the western legal system is more interested in polishing its liberal credentials, and spending other folks money than keeping an orderly society.

..might I suggest that a comparison with the cost and damage caused as a result of failure of the courts and parole system to deal with repeat offenders with the number of individuals going postal with guns may be interesting..?
 
The AR15 is certainly not necessary for hunting , popular or not , in hunting terms the AR only offers relatively low power round options so is only suitable for small deer and foxes /coyotes and the likes , anyone who has hunted deer knows that you would never need more than 3 rounds when hunting small deer, those who claim they need a 20 rnd mag are idiots who should not be allowed to hunt ,
The AR platform isn't only offered in .223/5.56 and I'd hardly call the .308 or the 6.5 Grendel or the 6.8 SPC which fires a .277 (270) round "relatively low power round options". I have a 6.5 Grendel which I regularly shoot out to a 1,000 yards during competition.

Also no one is allowed to use a twenty rnd magazine when hunting, the max a magazine may hold is 5 rnds.

In reality high mag capacity semi autos might be fun to shoot on the range but are not needed for any type of hunting anywhere in the world for any species.
That's your opinion and you are more than entitled to it, however I'll disagree when I say that I have hunted Deer, Coyotes, and Wild Pigs using the AR platform rifle with much success and I am far from being any kind of idiot.
 
As stated before, most States have have a 10 round limit for any hunting rifle.
I think you'll find that the max is 5 rounds and not 10 rounds as you state. The 10 round thing may be the case in some States but it's five in the majority of States that allow hunting with an AR.
 
Enough with that sort of talk! They are people killer guns!

View attachment 323331
Generally accepted as a full calibration, magazine fed long barrelled weapon capable of single shot burst and/or fully automatic fire.
But just for you rifle designed primarily to kill people? SMLE would count, AR14, AK47, AK74, SA80A2, the poncey french one, Barrett.......blah, blah. It’s really not a difficult concept for those of us familiar with them
 
Cherry picking again.... ..You really need to educate yourself beyond what you find online that suits your position.
Stop being obtuse.
The argument put was only allow bolt action hunting rifles with a 3-5 round magazine.
Charles Whitman used a Remington 700 bolt action hunting rifle with a 3 shot magazine
 
Generally accepted as a full calibration, magazine fed long barrelled weapon capable of single shot burst and/or fully automatic fire.
But just for you rifle designed primarily to kill people? SMLE would count, AR14, AK47, AK74, SA80A2, the poncey french one, Barrett.......blah, blah. It’s really not a difficult concept for those of us familiar with them
If only the world were so simple.
How about the humble Ruger 10/22?
 

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