True Support For Soldiers Fighting In Afghanistan???

#1
I thought I would post this to see peoples views on the subject.

I read the following article in the Guar which highlights the high casualty rate we have suffered recently in Afghanistan:

Linky

What caught my eye were the users comments below and to be blunt how incredibly stupid some of them were and despite the fact Afghanistan is in the news on a daily basis these days and our country is involved in a full blown war how little the general public seem to know (or care) about our part out there.

One particular comment which highlighted this was the one 9 down I think by an 'emma2001' , this showed that despite the effort by our soldiers and the article highlighting the sacrifice being made by those soldiers it made me wonder whether there is real public support for our troops? or just a concern over how much it costs to keep them there.

Hope this sparks a decent discussion.
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#2
We had our Regimental remembrance day earlier this year. We had a march up to horse guards and back and then we proceeded to a couple of the locals around Victoria. I lost count of the amount of people who came up asking me what my medals were for and saying thank you and shaking my hand. We had people buying us drinks aswell.
We weren't out in uniform either just suits with medals.

I've had people pay for my drinks when I was in a Cafe in London in uniform and again people coming up saying thank you etc.


I think there is a lot of support for the soldiers but not a lot for the fight in Afghanistan.
 
#3
'I think there is a lot of support for the soldiers but not a lot for the fight in Afghanistan.'

And not in this forces-hating Government either - only when one of them wants to get a bit of reflected glory by praising our 'wonderful and professional armed forces'.
 
#4
crow_bag said:
We had our Regimental remembrance day earlier this year. We had a march up to horse guards and back and then we proceeded to a couple of the locals around Victoria. I lost count of the amount of people who came up asking me what my medals were for and saying thank you and shaking my hand. We had people buying us drinks aswell.
We weren't out in uniform either just suits with medals.

I've had people pay for my drinks when I was in a Cafe in London in uniform and again people coming up saying thank you etc.


I think there is a lot of support for the soldiers but not a lot for the fight in Afghanistan.
I think your assessment in the last line of your post is spot-on.

Firstly I should admit to being a pasty civvie who has never served in the Forces. :oops:

Myself and everyone I know has the utmost respect and support for the actual men and women doing the fighting, but I cannot think of anyone who actually agrees with the conflict itself.

I actually do think Britain is there for a worthwhile cause, but that's tempered by the fact that I don't have to go out and put my life on the line, so I hesitate to appear like an armchair war-monger.

However I do think support for the troops is to some extent generational.

Crow_Bag what was the age range of those people who showed you their suport?

I'm 39 and so I grew up with two grandads who served in WW2 and great grandads who served in WW1.

Respect and gratitude for their efforts and for the Forces is far more ingrained in me than it will be for many of the young who have never had a living connection to a war. I wonder is emma2001 falls into that category?

It's the price of 60 years of general 'peace' that people feel they can make comments like these and hold such opinions I guess.

It's also human nature, soldiers from Ancient Egypt onwards will have always been stung by the indifference and ignorance of those who've never seen war.
 
#5
Dollsteeth said:
I thought I would post this to see peoples views on the subject.

I read the following article in the Guar which highlights the high casualty rate we have suffered recently in Afghanistan:

Linky

What caught my eye were the users comments below and to be blunt how incredibly stupid some of them were and despite the fact Afghanistan is in the news on a daily basis these days and our country is involved in a full blown war how little the general public seem to know (or care) about our part out there.

One particular comment which highlighted this was the one 9 down I think by an 'emma2001' , this showed that despite the effort by our soldiers and the article highlighting the sacrifice being made by those soldiers it made me wonder whether there is real public support for our troops? or just a concern over how much it costs to keep them there.

Hope this sparks a decent discussion.
Mate I wouldnt expect anything better from Guardian readers, even though theres less people like that out there than they'd like you to think reading the comments on a lefty newsight will just drive you mad!. The best thing to do is formulate arguements and gather the facts that will destroy these cnuts if you met in a bar!
 
#6
Public support for HMF clearly remains solid, however I think there is a danger in the manner that the media are now presenting every loss - to the point that we seemed to have reached a state of 24 hour rolling grief.

It's obviously very important that the fallen and wounded are shown the respect they deserve but the coverage is now firmly focused on this tragic aspect of the war as a substitute for some real hard headed analysis that might actually inform the public (and the politicians for that matter).

The vacuum of leadership at the very heart of government has never been more obvious and we are in danger of the media stepping in to fill the breach and leading the direction of policy by default.

As others have said I wouldn't put it past Labour to promise a unilateral withdrawal and damn the consequences if they thought it would get them a few more votes.
 
#7
I dont why i did.

But i did.

I went and read it.

Bad mood now.

What a bunch of cretins the 'great' British public are.

Ignorance personafied.

'its about an oil pipeline'

NO ITS NOT

'its like vietnam all over again'

NO ITS NOT

'we are fightnig the whole Afghan people'

NO WE ARE NOT

'its unwinnable'

with increased troop numbers and the right equipment this war is winnable.

There is something seriously wrong with peoples attitudes. These people are appeasers, cowards, they are weak. The upturn in casualties is tragic. What is more tragic however is the reaction of the nation: we have lost our bottle. If we had a continental war/world war now, we'd be doomed from the beginning because of the defeatist attitude of the media and the public.
 

elovabloke

ADC
Moderator
#9
Lets not knock emma to much.

With a government that has been less than truthful in its reasons behind the Iraq invasion and never come up with any real or concrete reasoning behind the current tactics used in Afghanistan, hopefully the public of a bankrupt nation will always question where the money is being spent.

As to the other part of the question. IMHO there has never been more support from the general public. Just keep an eye on the amount that rolls into H4H which for a new charity has raised millions in such a short time.
 
#10
Stopped reading comments after 20 or so, thats enough rage for today.

Ignorance from people that cannnot fathom that Tommy doesn't choose his wars and believe that if it wasn't for soldiers everyone would sit hold hands, drink green tea and become vegetarian. Bunch of w@nkers!!
 
#11
I'm not sure who is reading what on this thread but I cannot find a comment that is anti HMF????????
 
#12
crow_bag said:
Ceorl said:
Crow_Bag what was the age range of those people who showed you their suport?
I'm not sure but I'd say they were around their 30s
That gives a bit of credence to my guess, I'd say you'd be lucky to get any acknowledgment from most people under 30 these days.

Just as plenty of us bang on about 'the kids' having no respect for teachers, the police etc, I think unfortunately that more or less extends to service personnel these days as well, it's another social institution they feel no connection with, or are indifferent to.

The sad irony is of course that many of the lads out there are so young, so their age-group has a massive stake in all this. :(
 
#13
elovabloke said:
Lets not knock emma to much.

With a government that has been less than truthful in its reasons behind the Iraq invasion and never come up with any real or concrete reasoning behind the current tactics used in Afghanistan, hopefully the public of a bankrupt nation will always question where the money is being spent.

As to the other part of the question. IMHO there has never been more support from the general public. Just keep an eye on the amount that rolls into H4H which for a new charity has raised millions in such a short time.
But why are so many people like that always ready to believe the worst and hang on to every word of the anti-war lobby and naysayers?

I'm sure Emma and her kind believe they are savvy, techno-literate 21st century wunderkinds, so why don't they use all the information available out there, learn a bit and read some history, to make informed decisions?

Or am I just expecting too much!? :?
 
#14
Ceorl said:
learn a bit and read some history, to make informed decisions?

Or am I just expecting too much!? :?
Interesting observation. I take it you are aware of what has happened every time some foreign army wanders into Afghanistan without an invite.

One of the side lines of living in a democracy is to allow others to have an opinion whether we like it or not. I also reiterate that there are not any squaddie knocking comments in the article.
 
#15
I take it you are aware of what has happened every time some foreign army wanders into Afghanistan without an invite.
with completely different tactics, aims and abilities? i really wish people would stop trying to compare current situation with historical invasions of afghan.

for one we actually won the second afghan war,
in the first afghan war we only had 8,000 troops in the whole country, and the famous massacre in the withdrawl was of 4000 soldiers and 12000 civilians walking across the whole country...with the majority actually dying of disease.
and the third was a draw.

and how on earth do you think alexander the great got to india? he founded kandahar for christsake!
 
#16
The point of my argument if not well made is that armies wonder in and then they wonder out (normally after a period of time when lots die and not much is achieved) once they realise the cannot change the beliefs and traditions of the people who have lived that way for thousands of years.
 
#17
Interesting observation. I take it you are aware of what has happened every time some foreign army wanders into Afghanistan without an invite.

One of the side lines of living in a democracy is to allow others to have an opinion whether we like it or not. I also reiterate that there are not any squaddie knocking comments in the article.
Yes I am aware of the previous conflicts in Afghanistan, from Alexander the Great onwards.

I'm under no illusions as to the chances of ultimate success there, the word 'victory', it seems, always has to be taken relatively when it comes to that country.

I have no problem with differing opinions, I just have a problem with opinions formed in ignorance and I see more and more of it about these days.

I also suspect that the Guardian has tighter moderation on it's comments facility than some other papers which may soften the range of printed responses.

On the day the 5 lads from the Rifles patrol were killed I had the misfortune to read the comments on the Independent's website to some of the Afghanistan related articles of that week.

It's obviously no holds barred on there and most of them were vile in the extreme. Interestingly very few of them seemed to come from the expected quarters, but from the (white) middle-class 'intelligentsia.'
 
#18
The point of my argument if not well made is that armies wonder in and then they wonder out (normally after a period of time when lots die and not much is achieved) once they realise the cannot change the beliefs and traditions of the people who have lived that way for thousands of years.
alexander and the brits pre 1900's didnt want to change the beliefs of traditions of the people. they just wanted to extract wealth. thats why kandahar was founded to become a trade spot on the way to india. its same reason the brits wanted it, that and the huge copper and mineral researves. we only got involved in the tribes when they disrupted our control of the trade lanes and economic centres.

the soviets got involved as they had been backing the afghan's for almost a 100 years. and in contrast to your statement "without an invite" the soviets were invited initially in 1979 to supply troops in support of the government. they got into afghan like the US got into vietnam.
implanting slowly increasing numbers of equipment and specialists/advisors and their "protection".

sorry it just does my tits in when people try and compare it to the previous conflicts. the current conflict should be taken as it is. with the lessons to be learnt from history stretching no further back than say 30 years :)
 
#19
That was sort of what I was hinting at, certain papers stereotypical readers aside I think that for every decent person that regardless of the cause for war supports our fighting troops there is another who either is to stupid/ignorant to understand why or what we are doing there so doesnt care or simply takes the whole thing at distant,pays it no mind as it doesnt effect them save for interrupting the financial report with 'oh no, not that middle eastern thingy again,Iran isnt it? pahh'

Problem being the latter tend to occupy the higher,often more heard/listened to sections of the populus and in some instances the government.

I dont believe previous results British/Afghan History mean anything in the current situation, however the lack of support (certainly within the Govt anyway) for fighting troops and Labours obvious reluctance to state the obvious in public and make it clear TO the public that this country is at war and not just aggressively peacekeeping somewhere is probably why there is no end state to Herrick other then us retreating with our tail between our legs under the guise of either 'stable Afghan takeover' or American takeover.
 
#20
"Couldn't care less about 'our' soldiers, quite frankly. I believe they volunteered to do a job like that. It's called army"

"Have some concerns for the Afghan families who have no choice but to be there - unlike British soldiers."
 

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