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Troublesome "Teenager"

Should I wager that the "utter bollocks" comment was in reference to any attempt to have teaching join the ranks of regulated professions like accountancy, surveying, insurance, law, civil engineering, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, aeronautical engineering to name but a few (see the full list here: List of professional associations in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia) where professionals in whom the public have to put their trust in the probity and professionalism of those individuals are given the assurance that the chartered professional is governed by a code of conduct and a code of professional ethics as well as demanding standards of professional development that has to be maintained, and breaching any of those results in them being kicked out?

Or is it the notion that parents who have little option but to trust the welfare and education of their children to this unregulated "professional Wild West" of self-preservation and self-interest (and I'm talking mostly of Heads now) could (shock horror!) complain to an independent body that doesn't deal with its own complaints, and have issues properly investigated by someone other than a tame governor and a couple of mates from the school down the road and actually be censured by the regulating body that offends so much? Are you saying then that only incompetent or corrupt solicitors, surveyors, and accountants should be held up to standards and scrutiny and that "teaching professionals" are above all that? Bceuase, you know, all teachers are above reproach when it comes to matters of fiduciary responsibility and probity, eh?
Amazing, even when you're telling me what I think you still get it wrong. I have no issue with teaching being regulated by a professional body (I might get a couple more letters after my name), nor do I have a problem with the TRA being replaced by a different body. I struggle to see the relevance as, after the academy programme over the last decade, that body would have no impact on who can teach in an academy (just as it would have no impact on private schools) but whatever.

The bollocks I was referring to was this, just from your posts in this thread:
The other 90% [of teachers] are cnuts who can't make it in the real world, have never spent a day in their lives outside of a classroom, scraped a piss-poor quality degree from a 3rd rate institution

a lot of "teachers" these days are actually "coaches" and haven't passed either their proficiency tests or even hold a degree - let alone a teaching qualification,

He may well be acting out because he is being mistreated by one or more teachers. it can be subtle - being picked on in class for misbehaving when others are getting away with worse feeding a sense of injustice.

He may sense that a teacher/teachers dislike him. If he's bright it's as likely that some of his teachers may resent him for being more intelligent (but less educated and experienced in life) as they are and they are being passive-aggressive about it.

Speak to other parents, do some research. the kids will soon tell you who the toss-pot teachers are and why. See if any of them teach your lad, enquire about how the teachers behave, what they do, and what they say. if any of them are at fault then GO IN F*CKING HARD and expect the school to close ranks. Build up evidence, use the complaints procedure, go public on social media and the local press.
Just to sum up, you have said that 90% of the teaching workforce are intellectual dross hiding in teaching because they can't get a 'real job', a large proportion of those are totally unqualified, that children feeling they are being treated unfairly is the teacher's fault, that teachers are so fucking petty we treat children poorly if we're jealous of their intellectual capabilities and generally think your children are perfect.

If you want to take the experiences I have personally had or been told by other teachers in one school over the last couple of weeks (necessarily vague for that professionalism thing):
Child is moved classes after persistent, repeated bullying over several months, all well-documented with multiple senior staff involved. Parent kicks off, head bends like a wet playing card, child goes back to where they were.

Child is picked up for not following school policy but teacher ignores mandated punishment. Child is picked up for not following policy for exactly the same thing next week, teacher tells child they will speak to relevant senior staff member. Parent kicks off on social media, senior staff member tells teacher off the next day for setting punishment. Teacher points out that a) parent is kicking off about a punishment that has not happened and b) said punishment is mandated by school policy which senior person helped write. The response is 'use your common sense, the parent's complaining all over social media'.

Child leaves lesson and goes on to commit criminal damage to school property. In this case the parent did not kick off but only because we luckily had CCTV footage of the criminal damage taking place.

Child makes false accusation about teacher pushing them. Fortunately senior staff actually listened when the issue was raised immediately, statements taken from other children in the class all agreed that teacher had not even approached child and was stood several metres away.

Child is repeatedly rude to teacher, teacher after responding quietly several times raises their voice to get the child's attention. Parent demands a phone call and goes on to accuse said teacher of having 'issues at home and taking it out on students'. Nothing of the sort and I know that as I spoke to the teacher involved when it happened and after said phone call.

So yes, you have said some utter bollocks. Yes, you have encouraged people to act the cunt when dealing with their children/godchildren's school. Yes, a lot of your 'advice' on this thread will achieve nothing but generating a huge amount of unnecessary work and a lot of ill-feeling. There is a time and place for kicking off about issues and that is not when the only information you have about a situation is a young child's interpretation of the situation, especially when it's not clear if the punishment was a detention, internal exclusion or fixed-term exclusion.

Fucketybye :)

Edit - now I think of it, if so many of your children's teachers are lying jealous morons, why do you leave your precious offspring in their care? Why not move schools if it's that bad?
 
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And a very bright fuckyoutoo this fine and sunny morning.



Should I wager that the "utter bollocks" comment was in reference to any attempt to have teaching join the ranks of regulated professions like accountancy, surveying, insurance, law, civil engineering, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, aeronautical engineering to name but a few (see the full list here: List of professional associations in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia) where professionals in whom the public have to put their trust in the probity and professionalism of those individuals are given the assurance that the chartered professional is governed by a code of conduct and a code of professional ethics as well as demanding standards of professional development that has to be maintained, and breaching any of those results in them being kicked out?

Or is it the notion that parents who have little option but to trust the welfare and education of their children to this unregulated "professional Wild West" of self-preservation and self-interest (and I'm talking mostly of Heads now) could (shock horror!) complain to an independent body that doesn't deal with its own complaints, and have issues properly investigated by someone other than a tame governor and a couple of mates from the school down the road and actually be censured by the regulating body that offends so much? Are you saying then that only incompetent or corrupt solicitors, surveyors, and accountants should be held up to standards and scrutiny and that "teaching professionals" are above all that? Bceuase, you know, all teachers are above reproach when it comes to matters of fiduciary responsibility and probity, eh?

There is a substantial dollop of truth to the phrase "Those who can, do. Those who can't teach".

Other than private schools where the pay and standards are higher, state school teachers are almost without exception utter dross. The system is so broken that anyone with anything about them jumped ships years ago, and all that is left is a bunch of retarded parrots who have chugged back the left-wing Kool-Aid that their Headteachers force down their throats.

I would be all up for a professional body for teachers, as long as the post-nominals available were PAEDO, THICK and SNOWFLAKE.
 
There is a substantial dollop of truth to the phrase "Those who can, do. Those who can't teach".

Other than private schools where the pay and standards are higher, state school teachers are almost without exception utter dross. The system is so broken that anyone with anything about them jumped ships years ago, and all that is left is a bunch of retarded parrots who have chugged back the left-wing Kool-Aid that their Headteachers force down their throats.

I would be all up for a professional body for teachers, as long as the post-nominals available were PAEDO, THICK and SNOWFLAKE.
Your experience in the field is? I would get all bitey about exams that can be sat in each system, intake selection etc. but it would be a lot of effort. Get fucked :)
 
There is a substantial dollop of truth to the phrase "Those who can, do. Those who can't teach".

Other than private schools where the pay and standards are higher, state school teachers are almost without exception utter dross. The system is so broken that anyone with anything about them jumped ships years ago, and all that is left is a bunch of retarded parrots who have chugged back the left-wing Kool-Aid that their Headteachers force down their throats.

I would be all up for a professional body for teachers, as long as the post-nominals available were PAEDO, THICK and SNOWFLAKE.

. . . and there's also a substantial dollop of truth in the phrase, 'No bad dogs, just bad owners'.

Third Daughter is coming to the end of her first term teaching at a SE Wales school. 3 years for her BA and then a further year for her PGCE, of which nearly half of that year is school placements. To achieve that, she helped support herself as cook/bar staff in a local pub, as a pastry chef and working in a small cafe.

She is neither a paedo, thick nor a snowflake (when roused, her tongue can flay leather and she has a turn of phrase that would make a 3-Badge AB blush).

She has quickly learned how to manage any discipline process: ideally, she will speak to a parent/parents in the first instance. If she judges that as a positive-that is, the parents acknowledge that their issue can be a touch Jekyll and Hyde-then, with that tacit agreement and support, she'll weigh into the little darling accordingly, though usually with a velvet glove.

If the parent conversation is along the lines of, 'My Tamsin would never say such a thing! You're lying!' (note: 'lying', not 'mistaken'), then Third Daughter puts on her very best pixie face and sweetly replies, 'Well, the texts she sent would suggest otherwise'.

At that point she calls for 'Ramming Speed' and 'Brace, Brace, Brace!' and Dear Tamsin gets the good news.
 
Third Daughter is coming to the end of her first term teaching at a SE Wales school. 3 years for her BA and then a further year for her PGCE, of which nearly half of that year is school placements.
Primary or Secondary?
 
Where's the father ? (Not that it's any of my business) a lot of anger in young men and teens stems from not having a positive male role model, imho. This is why single mums often have a problem raising male children, once they become teen-agers they're big enough to call the shots.
Not my Irish mum, or any of my Jamaican mates.
We were taught respect. I did hurt at first.
 
Primary or Secondary?

Secondary and, allegedly, one of the better ones in the area.

Initially, she thought she would prefer Primary: but she does love a challenge :cool:

So far, so good. Yes, she has had her moments but she seems to have dealt with most of it well.

She still has that sheen of 'eager' whereby Sunday afternoon and evening are given over to prep for Monday: always looking for something different, bless her.
 
Secondary and, allegedly, one of the better ones in the area.

Initially, she thought she would prefer Primary: but she does love a challenge :cool:
Just going from experience among colleagues and friends, the working life expectancy in secondary is considerably better than primary. Secondary seems to have a higher rate of turnover (I think we spend about 3 years in a post on average) but most people I know are still in secondary whereas 2 primary teachers have had enough and moved to other careers.
 

Yokel

LE
I wonder if @woopert and @DTBA are related?

This thread was meant to be about a young lad going a bit of the rails and his Godfather trying to find possible ways forward
 
I wonder if @woopert and @DTBA are related?

This thread was meant to be about a young lad going a bit of the rails and his Godfather trying to find possible ways forward
It's been through that point. Lots of sensible posts in the first 2 pages along the lines of 'Find an activity you can do together, speak to the child and ask them what's going on'.

Woopert then chimed in with 'Be as much of a dickhead as physically possible', I responded with 'Don't be a dickhead until you know it's justified' and it's gone from there.
 
Just going from experience among colleagues and friends, the working life expectancy in secondary is considerably better than primary. Secondary seems to have a higher rate of turnover (I think we spend about 3 years in a post on average) but most people I know are still in secondary whereas 2 primary teachers have had enough and moved to other careers.

Indeed, she was advised pretty much as you've said, which surprised us both a touch.

. . . plus, as she said, 'I don't really do little people' . . . only she used Industrial Anglo Saxon to express that view.
 
Indeed, she was advised pretty much as you've said, which surprised us both a touch.

. . . plus, as she said, 'I don't really do little people' . . . only she used Industrial Anglo Saxon to express that view.
Indeed and it's that sort of thing that people don't get about the education system. I genuinely think that everyone considers themselves an expert as they've been through it and therefore know all about it. To use an extremely dodgy simile, that's like a kid in Afghanistan considering themselves an expert on modern COIN warfare as they've lived through the results.

The main advantages of Secondary are (most of the time) we are teaching in our specialist subject, can tell kids to sit down and shut up and, most importantly, only have to put up with a bunch of mentals for an hour before they piss off and ruin someone else's day. In Primary you're stuck with the same bunch of feral lunatics all day, every day.

Still nowhere near as hard as special schools, I spent a week in one just watching lessons and was fucking knackered by the end. No idea how those mad bastards cope.
 
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Indeed and it's that sort of thing that people don't get about the education system. I genuinely think that everyone considers themselves an expert as they've been through it and therefore know all about it. To use an extremely dodgy simile, that's like a kid in Afghanistan considering themselves an expert on modern COIN warfare as they've lived through the results.

The main advantages of Secondary are (most of the time) we are teaching in our specialist subject, can tell kids to sit down and shut up and, most importantly, only have to put up with a bunch of mentals for an hour before they piss off and ruin someone else's day. In Primary you're stuck with the same bunch of feral lunatics all day, every day.

Still nowhere near as hard as special schools, I spent a week in one just watching lessons and was ******* knackered by the end. No idea how those mad bastards cope.

Word.

Hippy Daughter (the second one) is a team leader at such an establishment, though dealing with extreme ADHD and high-end Asperger's: if she's really, really lucky a new client will be assessed as presenting with both syndromes.

We Skyped a couple of weeks ago and I was a touch concerned to see her sporting a stunning black eye: it was a thing of beauty with the blues and blacks merging effortlessly with the greens and reds.

'WT very F is that?!', sez I. 'Oh, Adam decided to play 'Lights Out'', says Fruit of My Loins. 'Wunh?', I responded.

Apparently, 'Lights Out' involves Adam switching off the room light, nutting the staff member, switching the light back on and guessing who did the nutting.

She loves the job: when not at work, she's out saving injured horses and Grey Seal pups.
 
She loves the job: when not at work, she's out saving injured horses and Grey Seal pups.
I can see where the job satisfaction comes from, I got a severely autistic boy to smile for the first time in years. Admittedly I achieved that by being a clumsy bastard and letting him beat me at indoor football but it wasn't intentional. Worth it. Another seriously odd kid dragged me up to the front of an assembly to say thanks for me being in lessons that week.

With that said, I can deal with 16 year olds calling me a wanker, storming off in full teddy-throwing mode, having the odd fight and occasionally throwing latex vaginas down corridors (long story). I could not deal with half a dozen special kids being themselves all day.
 
Still nowhere near as hard as special schools, I spent a week in one just watching lessons and was ******* knackered by the end. No idea how those mad bastards cope.

just a heads up but you're not allowed to call the kids in special schools mad bastards anymore
 
stop assuming that just because someone has spent 30 years in teaching it qualifies them to be a Head/Dep/Asst and train them to run an organisation so they "get" finance, HR, employment law, and hold them accountable
To be fair this is an issue in most walks of life. How often have we seen an individual promoted beyond their ceiling because they were good at a particular role? Both civ and military.

"Major Smith, you are a brilliant field officer and I admire hugely how you company took that village/FOB/enemy position. Here's a promotion - you are now SO1 Buying Stuff."

I worked in hotels for a while in my youth. I saw many a chef, an absolute whizz at making pasties/sauces/whatever made head of section, or even head chef, where, suddenly, inert ingredients were not the primary contact point for their working day.

Seeing the FD berate some cook for failing to miss some financial target is an indicator of this very issue.

With apologies to OP for thread drift.
 
Clearly this is one pf these subjects that excites differing views, experiences, and "opinions".
As I mentioned before, SWMBO spent 42 years at the same Primary school, becoming one of it's recognised & respected touch-stones of advice, experience, and in general terms pretty much a force to be reckoned with in dealing with both wayward parents as well as problem kids.

The things she does not miss in retirement are staff who really ought not to be in the profession, and Heads ( I think she was both managed and mis-managed) by a total of 11 through the years. Some Heads had clearly been promoted sideways to keep them out of class arenas and a few were, conversely, pretty effective and hands on. They are more easily remembered for being exceptional. We saw teachers dodging the set curriculums, some simply unfit for purpose, one for example getting through the day with the aid of a half bottle of Smirnoff in her bottom drawer.

We also saw terrific younger teachers, totally dedicated to the kids, and putting huge out of hours effort into them.
This household? Typical really in the profession. A mixed bag. As I said earlier, we have photos taken in A&E on SWMBO's Iphone of her bruised and battered head, legs, and torso by the wrong end of a window pole.
She applied more make-up on her face, and wore long-sleeves two days later...to get back to "her kids".
The Police, P.A.T. Union and Education Dept body-swerved the whole incident.
She was threatened in the playground by scum parents & pupils, spat on, her car damaged on more than one occasion, and generally undermined as they all were ( and still are) by dreadful per- capita pupil material allowance cuts.

Today? She misses "the kids", but that's it. It's quite a small community in school terms in the FK post code.
Sometimes, she gets stopped by adults who, at first, she thinks are past parents but such is the passage of time, are ex pupils. Most are parents and some who were Primary 6/7 in the early '70s are grandparents. They all say much the same. "I wish you were still there for our kids Mrs Ecosse".

Only last month, a huge bloke stopped us in the local Howgate. Eventually, she placed him going back to the early 90's as a right wee (big) shyte. She got him well straight as it a happens. He is now what I think is called a "wokka wokka (?) pilot. Armed Forces anyway doing choppery stuff. He and his Missus took her out for lunch.
It was quite funny. She invited him just to call her by first name. To see this man mountain squirm like a 12 years
old was amusing. It was Mrs. ************* or nothing. Respect.
I made my way elsewhere. It was "one of her" former pupil experiences, not mine. To be honest, for a former teacher to be told by her former pupils they wish she was teaching their own, that makes it all worthwhile. Happens to a lot of the good 'uns. SWMBO is far from alone.

Those who can, do it? Those who cannot...teach?

We get that, but even that is open to interpretation.
Could SWMBO have survived in my aggressive commercial arenas? Certainly not. Could I have survived a week with 28 feral wee shytes and made something of some of them? In a pig's ear. I'd have lost my job by Tuesday.

There are good & bad in every job.
 
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