Troops to Teachers

#1
In the run-up to the GE, the Tories were talking up introducing a Troops to Teachers scheme. Does anyone know if any more has been said/done on this? I will be finishing in 4 yrs (or 2 if I can't stick the extra VEng years!!) and I'm quite interested, teaching is my family's "trade".
 
#2
Todays Sunday Times refers-Teach Next-a programme where if you have a degree you could be n schools in as little as 6 weeks. Also 9 k of bursary for a 2 year teacher training course. Oddly enough the NUT don't like the idea.
 
#3
I assume this only applies to teaching in England. Anyone know if there is a similar scheme planned for Scotland?
 
#5
Bearing in mind that there can be;
No raised voices
No negative criticism
No sarcasm
No blame
Nobody's fault
And God forbid NO physical restraint
Let alone the idea of discipline or respect, or punishment.
What exactly will Ex-forces be able to do that the current round of teachers can't?
They will be better able to defend themselves when a parent goes mental, but that aside I think it looks like another stunt.
I noticed that the first drafts quite often had a Battle Dressed WO1 in shouty mode as a headline picture, try it, see what happens.

Plus the NUT tend towards the right-on all military are baby killers view of the Forces, so don't expect too much support from them.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#6
Bearing in mind that there can be;
No raised voices
No negative criticism
No sarcasm
No blame
Nobody's fault
And God forbid NO physical restraint
Let alone the idea of discipline or respect, or punishment.
What exactly will Ex-forces be able to do that the current round of teachers can't?
They will be better able to defend themselves when a parent goes mental, but that aside I think it looks like another stunt.
I noticed that the first drafts quite often had a Battle Dressed WO1 in shouty mode as a headline picture, try it, see what happens.

Plus the NUT tend towards the right-on all military are baby killers view of the Forces, so don't expect too much support from them.
Is scowling and raising an eyebrow allowed?
 
#7
Todays Sunday Times refers-Teach Next-a programme where if you have a degree you could be n schools in as little as 6 weeks. Also 9 k of bursary for a 2 year teacher training course. Oddly enough the NUT don't like the idea.
Der, simple innit. Teachers should only be selected from the finest of university dwellers and 'permenant' students who are fearful of entering the workplace. People with actual experience of life outside of the campus walls will have all sorts of differing ideas and views on life.

It just wouldn't work.

Besides. Everyone knows the soldiers will only be recruiting kids in their classes to become rightwing, crypto-fasicist, baby killing pawns of the imperium.... or, you know, something.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
In parallel to this is the push to expand cadet forces in state schools.

Cadet forces to be expanded in state schools - Telegraph

Although predictably the teaching unions are against it...

Christine Blower, general secretary of the National Union of Teachers, said: "I think what he believes is that somehow or other there is a magic in certain kinds of people who've been in the military to be able to maintain discipline and order in classrooms which may be different from other people. I dispute that."
Wordsmith
 
#9
Or the kids will realise the bod at the front is confident and are actually quite professional, with all the usual bits that is expected of a Armed Forces Instructor/teacher. Not a damp blouse like many teachers are.

There is no 'magic' just Confidence, a good Mannder, a good Attitude, Diligence in preparing and executing the lessons and in the follow through and all around Enthusiam for teaching/instructing the lesson/in general.

Coupled with a spot of Self-Less commitment (ie not going on strike), respect for Others ie the kids and fellow staff, Loyalty, as before, Integrity, Discipline both self and encouraging others, Courage to do what is right and if neccesary physical courage.

Stand by Mr and Miss limp wrist. The teaching profession is about to get better, so you'd might aswell think of something to study for your Doctorate and p1ss off back in to academia.
 
#10
The education system was a lot better post WW2 to the early sixties when the majority of teachers were ex-forces. O.K, it was strict & there were at times unnecessary corporal punishment (pun not intended) but the kids actually left school literate. Then the tree hugging left-wing feckin' liberal dope smoking bleedin' heart hippies took over.
 
#11
In parallel to this is the push to expand cadet forces in state schools.

Cadet forces to be expanded in state schools - Telegraph

Although predictably the teaching unions are against it...
Christine Blower, general secretary of the National Union of Teachers, said: "I think what he believes is that somehow or other there is a magic in certain kinds of people who've been in the military to be able to maintain discipline and order in classrooms which may be different from other people. I dispute that."
Wordsmith
For once I agree with a union mans quote, There are reasons the army maintain discipline ranging from MCTC to getting a dig when no-one is looking, but none are applicable in a school (nowdays).
 
#12
For once I agree with a union mans quote, There are reasons the army maintain discipline ranging from MCTC to getting a dig when no-one is looking, but none are applicable in a school (nowdays).
Er? I disagree.

If the only ways you can think of to maintain discipline involve MCTC or giving someone a slap, then you need to take a serious look at how you go about your business. Especially if you hold a rank other than Private.
 
#13
For once I agree with a union mans quote, There are reasons the army maintain discipline ranging from MCTC to getting a dig when no-one is looking, but none are applicable in a school (nowdays).
Yeah, a union man called Christine... :roll:
 
#14
Er? I disagree.

If the only ways you can think of to maintain discipline involve MCTC or giving someone a slap, then you need to take a serious look at how you go about your business. Especially if you hold a rank other than Private.
I said ranging from, everything in between from AGAIs to shit jobs to fines to promotion bans, I think the best you will give out at a school is a detention and there are only so many of them you can give out.
 
#15
#16
I said ranging from, everything in between from AGAIs to shit jobs to fines to promotion bans, I think the best you will give out at a school is a detention and there are only so many of them you can give out.
And yet, when I was on a CTT I couldn't really give out any detentions or even send them to MCTC (I think we'll agree that slaps were right out) and guess what... no problems in the class.

Kids ranging from CCF to ACF, those who wanted to be there, and those that didn't.

Generally I found treating them with respect and the odd shout kept things on an even keel.

As a Tp SSgt I found that similar treatment kept the troop running smoothly, sure I could go further but generally didn't need to. On the flip side a Sqn I know of in which AGAIs were handed out like sweets soon gained notoriety as 'ASBO Sqn'. Tighter the grip, the more slip away perhaps.

Or if you treat blokes like cnuts, they'll act like cnuts.
 
#17
And yet, when I was on a CTT I couldn't really give out any detentions or even send them to MCTC (I think we'll agree that slaps were right out) and guess what... no problems in the class.

Kids ranging from CCF to ACF, those who wanted to be there, and those that didn't.

Generally I found treating them with respect and the odd shout kept things on an even keel.

As a Tp SSgt I found that similar treatment kept the troop running smoothly, sure I could go further but generally didn't need to. On the flip side a Sqn I know of in which AGAIs were handed out like sweets soon gained notoriety as 'ASBO Sqn'. Tighter the grip, the more slip away perhaps.

Or if you treat blokes like cnuts, they'll act like cnuts.
My bold. I couldn't agree more, when i was instructing Ph1 and Ph2, I acted towards them as I would have wanted my instructors to have been like. You are right in that if someone is shouting and screaming and beasting the trainee's, it only acts as a poor cover for a shite instructor, and the trainee will switch off cos they just think you're a ****.
If you know your subject and display a certain amount of humility you'll find them much more receptive. Tools for tasks and all that
 
#18
And yet, when I was on a CTT I couldn't really give out any detentions or even send them to MCTC (I think we'll agree that slaps were right out) and guess what... no problems in the class.

Kids ranging from CCF to ACF, those who wanted to be there, and those that didn't.

Generally I found treating them with respect and the odd shout kept things on an even keel.

As a Tp SSgt I found that similar treatment kept the troop running smoothly, sure I could go further but generally didn't need to. On the flip side a Sqn I know of in which AGAIs were handed out like sweets soon gained notoriety as 'ASBO Sqn'. Tighter the grip, the more slip away perhaps.

Or if you treat blokes like cnuts, they'll act like cnuts.
Although the link was to the CCF, I was talking about teaching in general, if the kids are well behaved and want to get on then being ex-army won't make much of a difference to teaching them, if they are ill behaved little ******* then not much learnt in the army is going help because the way to deal with discipline in the military and schools are totally different.
The way this is being sold is "tough" ex forces will instill "discipline" in the classroom. I can't see it happening because they are ex soldiers(anymore than your average civvie can instill discipline). I assume the idea isnt for them to go into nice private schools where the kids are well behaved but more into the innercity rough areas where the kids don't give a shit about the police (Who do have a range of powers) never mind some school teacher.

Back to the army, we have a discipline procedure for a reason some people will act like cnuts if there wasnt one.
 
#20
...if they are ill behaved little ******* then not much learnt in the army is going help because the way to deal with discipline in the military and schools are totally different.
The way this is being sold is "tough" ex forces will instill "discipline" in the classroom. I can't see it happening because they are ex soldiers(anymore than your average civvie can instill discipline). I assume the idea isnt for them to go into nice private schools where the kids are well behaved but more into the innercity rough areas where the kids don't give a shit about the police (Who do have a range of powers) never mind some school teacher.
You are right, when my team took on the building, and support, of an ACF det (but run like a CCF) in one of the bottom 10 performing schools in the country (I think the exact spot was 7 or 8), where we had to be buzzed in and booked in and doors were locked behind us and we had a breifing of what we could say, couldn't do (ie shouting was out) we had no problems at all, because shockingly they were all misunderstood little angels. :roll:

This is indeed being missold, probably by lefty fcuknuckles who would have benefitted from actually learning about the Forces and their various instructional capabilities and what not. The 'Troops to Teachers' aren't going to be agaiing little jimmy, and slapping miscreants. As mentioned before they will be standing, smartly at the front of the class putting in to practice the years of training and thinking behind the SOLIDC, CMADE and any other acronym/pneumonic you can think of.

It would probably help if the various supporting newspaperss thought about what was actually going to be brought to the class room instead of WO2 (BSM) Williams RA crossed with Sgt Mackay Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders (retd).
 

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