Troops find hostage 'slaughterhouses' in Falluja

I never thought I’d say this,
But they should raise the city to the ground until every last terrorist is caught and executed.

There is no justice for those who either carried out these murders nor for those who harbour them.

I’m calling for a jihad on terrorism, am I wrong?

BBC you are correct. Falluja has been the terrorist capitol where anything goes. I hope that they dont want to surrender and decide to fight it out. Our forces are pushing them into the southern part of the city where their movements are easily seen. Several bomb making factories were uncovered along with cell phones used to initiate the IED. By wrapping up Falluja I hope it reduces the number of IED's in the region. I think 70% of our casualties have been due to IED's.
Was watching the BBC news last night, and the bar stewards were firing out of the mosques, knowing that the coalition don't really want to touch them. So the USMC call up a tank, & take out the minarets. The BBC commentator says "These are images which will cause outcry across the Muslim world", thereby provoking said outcry... But, where's the outcry from the muslim world that the insurgents are desecrating the mosques by using them to store wpns & shoot out of?

The silence is deafening :x

Exactly! saw that as well last night, unfortunately was in the gym at the time and when Jon Snow said that bit about "cause outrage in the Arab world" i think i probably yelled "F&ck'em!" a tad too loud. :oops:
Credit where it's due. The Yanks seem to be doing an excellent job there. As for the 'outcry' regarding firing on mosques, exactly what goodwill from the Arab world is this going to lose for the Americans or us? To quote Churchill (who always seemed to have a phrase to suit any occasion):

"We will mete out to them the measure, and more than the measure, that they have meted out to us,"
stoatman said:
But, where's the outcry from the muslim world that the insurgents are desecrating the mosques by using them to store wpns & shoot out of?
Good comment stoaty. I remember wpns finds in RC churches over in NI. Massive outcry about the fact we were searching churches. No comment on the fact they were using consecrated ground to hide arms and ammunition!
In this case, the Yanks have the right idea, the second they fire out of Mosques, use them to make IEDs in, or as safe heavens, that mosque becomes nothing more than a terrorist base I'm afraid. Those minarets as well, probaably some of the tallest palces iN Falluja, snipers paradise ey? I don't like that in news reporting, why did they have to say it will cause outrage, is that! Let people make their own minds up, just say US tank destroyed minarets, if it causes outrage it does, but to echo what's been said fook em, if it saves troops lives, then where's an F-16 when you need one? Raising it to the ground? I'm sure a few B-52s could take care of that, bit of napalm maybe, just for good measure!?
307 said:
I'm sure a few B-52s could take care of that, bit of napalm maybe, just for good measure!?
Now that would be a little over the top 307. A measured response to the situation on the ground is acceptable. Carpet bombing and napalm is one quick method to really alienate yourselves from the rest of the world. As much as I dislike their lack of professionalism, the Yanks are actually doing a good job in this case and I for one am quite impressed with the way the operation is being conducted.
Don't take it as a serious suggestion fella. Would be nice if we could just get all the terrorists together with no civvis and just bomb the cack out of them with nasty stuff like napalm. I admit, they yanks are doing well, their casualties are very low.
I think that we should take extraordinary steps to respect and protect their Mosques. But when it starts shooting at us, it is no longer a Mosque. It is magically transformed into a target. That should be a stated policy and we should abide by it.
Many killed in Baghdad car bomb blast

Eighteen Iraqis including a guardsman have been killed in separate attacks in Baghdad and Baquba while the governor of Kirkuk has escaped an assassination attempt.

A car bomb exploded near a police patrol in central Baghdad on Thursday, killing at least 17 civilians and wounding 20, destroying cars and devastating a nearby building, police and witnesses said.

"A car bomb hit a police patrol, wounding several policemen," a police officer at the scene said. "There must also be civilian casualties because it is a busy area."

The explosion brought down the roof and walls of a nearby building, and passersby and rescue workers searched the ruins for survivors.

Cars ablaze

The blast set several cars ablaze, sending black smoke billowing into the air. A line of cars had been queuing at a nearby petrol station when the car bomb detonated. The station itself did not catch fire.

Twisted metal and shards of
glass littered the blast site

Twisted metal and shards of glass littered the commercial Saadun Street district as police cars rushed to the scene.

"My clinic shook and is now filled with sand and dust," said Dr Anwar Barnuti, who runs a clinic nearby.

The US military had no information on the blast, which took place about 11:30am (0830 GMT) in Nasr Square, where a statue of a former Iraqi prime minister stands.

The blast follows close on the heels of another car bomb near the culture ministry in Baghdad that killed seven people on Wednesday.

Assassination bid

Also on Thursday, north of Baghdad a national guardsman was killed and 17 people were injured in separate attacks, including a car bombing against the governor of Kirkuk, who escaped unharmed, police said. Four of Abd al-Rahman Mustafa's bodyguards were among the wounded when the explosion ripped through his convoy as it drove through the city's northern Imam Kassim neighbourhood, police chief Turhan Yusif said.

"My clinic shook and is now filled with sand
and dust"

Baghdad doctor Anwar Barnuti

The attack, at about 9am (0600 GMT), wounded 10 passersby, according to Dr Rida Abd Allah of the Kirkuk general hospital.

It is the first time that the governor of ethnically charged Kirkuk, 250km north of Baghdad, has been targeted.

In another incident on Thursday, a loud explosion rocked an oil well west of the city, sources told Aljazeera.

Guardsman killed

On a day violence surged in Iraqi towns and cities, about 30 armed men attacked a National Guard station at dawn in Baquba, 60km north-east of the Iraqi capital, Muhannad Mahmud, a guardsman, said.

One guardsman was killed and three others were injured in the incident, he said.

Iraq's fledgling security forces and all other symbols of the US-backed government are prime targets for a potent anti-US movement that has raged since the aftermath of last year's invasion.

Mosul attacked

In a separate development, a number of armed fighters have taken over control of six police centres in Mosul city, sources told Aljazeera.

The US forces closed five bridges
in Mosul amid escalating violence

The fighters confiscated the police centres' weapons and burnt some of them on Thursday. They also set fire to a number of police vehicles, the sources said.

For their part, US forces backed by armoured vehicles separated the two sides of the city by closing four of the five bridges on the Tigris river, Muhammad Zu al-Nun, an Iraqi journalist, told Aljazeera.

Later loud explosions rocked the city as US military bases in different areas in Mosul came under attack from mortar shells and Katyusha missiles.

Al-Amiriya searched

Against this backdrop of bloody clashes, a large number of US forces and Iraqi national guards have cordoned off the neighbourhood of al-Amiriya, west of Baghdad, Aljazeera learnt.

On Thursday, US soldiers prevented citizens from leaving their homes in order to search them. Large numbers of US military vehicles have been deployed in the city.

The action came in the wake of fierce clashes on Wednesday between US forces and armed fighters.
tomahawk6 said:
Al Jazeera is hardly a credible source of information. They are after all cheer leaders for arab terrorism.
And Fox News is "fair and balanced" ?

More seriously, Al Jazeera are on close examination not as biased as you make out. They have been quite controversial in the Arab world and are attempting in their own way to be fair and balanced.

However, they do give their viewers what they want. And that means concentrating on those aspects of the current conflict that we'd rather they didn't. The Arab world isn't really interested in Billy-Bob in a Bradley vapourising insurgents for God, Mom, apple pie and the American way - or the Black Watch getting shafted by TCH. What they want to see is Iraqi civilians getting hurt in firefights with the coalition and mosques getting hit. And we provide enough of those moments unfortunately.

Why ? Because all media outlets exist to pander to the predjudices of their viewers. It is unfair of course, but as the essential unfairness of life is one of the first things you should teach your kids then that shouldn't come as a shock.

Now of course their broadcasts do help the opposition, but not necessarily by design. More importantly, damning them ignores the fact that our current info ops campaign is fatally flawed and is actively doing us harm. We have to change the message that they report if we wish to win this thing. Slagging them off will not achieve that aim. Admitting that we should be managing them so that they can't report such things will. And I don't mean bans or infiltration either.
As much as we may find Al Jazeera's content unpalatable, it is easy to forget that they are far more hated by Arab Regimes than by us. One thing that they don't do is coddle their viewers. They don't know from 9 PM watershed. If an incident goes down, and it involves graphic images of death and destruction, that is exactly what they show. It is very easy to choose your media outlets so you hear or see what you want to, rather than what is actually happening. I provisionally supported the invasion of Iraq, but as a member of a democracy I don't think that I should be isolated from the truth about the exact consequences of the action I supported, as a tax-paying member of the electorate.

That is via AFP/Reuters

I deliberately don't post the "optimistic editorial" pieces like "Resistance hold their own against Great Satan in Fallujah"

That piece talked about where attacks and incidents have happened in the last 24.

The figures may be massaged but the incidents have happened.

Yes Al-Jazeera is far from perfect, which news source is? In comparison with Debka , At least Al-Jazeera tries to give some proof to it's stories. :D But don't condemn them out of hand, for presenting the news in a format that best suits their core audience.

Don't condemn them , for the fact our Media Ops teams are sub-standard.
I suppose al Jazeera might seem like a great source of info if you have an anti-US bias. Guardian is good. Fox is bad. I aim my comments in a general way and not intended as a criticism of any particular poster.
tomahawk6 said:
I suppose al Jazeera might seem like a great source of info if you have an anti-US bias. Guardian is good. Fox is bad. I aim my comments in a general way and not intended as a criticism of any particular poster.
Forgive me but that sort of sloppy thinking is exactly the reason our media ops effort is the huge pile of poo that it is. No news source is unbiased. We merely think that the one that reflects our predjudices is unbiased. It also offers a convenient way for those who can't think of a good argument to dismiss facts that they find uncomfortable - ie the current batch of politicians.

What we should be asking ourselves is why do we feel that Al Jazeera is anti -US ? It's probably not a deliberate policy, but it does reflect what a lot of the watchers think. We need to get inside their heads and shape their perceptions if we wish to win this war, just dismissing them illustrates the attitude that will lose it.

We have to get our heads round the fact that this conflict cannot be resolved by military force. It doesn't matter how many we kill, unless we cut the source off we're not accomplishing anything. And one source very definitely is Al Jazeera's audience.

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