Trial expansion of School Combined Cadet Forces

#1
This announcement by Lord Drayson yesterday (9 January 2007) recorded at column WS 10 in the House of Lords Hansard:

"Ministry of Defence: Combined Cadet Force

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Drayson): My honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Derek Twigg) has made the following Written Ministerial Statement.

I am pleased to announce that the schools selected to take part in the trial expansion of the Combined Cadet Force further into the state school sector will be:

Archers Court Specialist Maths and Computing College, Dover

Budmouth Technology College, WeymouthDeacon's School—Specialist Technology College, PeterboroughHaberdashers' Aske's Federation of Hatcham College and Knights Academy, LondonTreorchy Comprehensive School, Treorchy, Mid Glamorgan

9 Jan 2007 : Column WS11

We are in active dialogue with a school in Scotland and hope we can announce its participation in due course. The MoD will now begin the process of training the teachers and staff from the schools who have volunteered to take part in the pilot scheme. This process will involve attending courses at the Cadet Training Centre, training sessions with the local cadet training teams and participation at cadet camps. This activity will continue through to the summer of 2007. We expect the first pupils to enrol as cadets in the new contingents, as planned, at the start of the academic year 2007-08.

The MoD remains fully committed to supporting the opportunities which the Combined Cadet Force, through the unique educational partnership established between the MoD and the individual school, is able to provide. It is this range of personal development and educational opportunities that enables the Combined Cadet Force to stand out among other youth organisations, thereby acting as a genuine force for good for the young people who join, the schools in which they are based as well as for the communities in which they live. We are therefore determined to ensure that this pilot scheme will allow many more young people to enjoy the full cadet experience."
 
#2
This is by no means supposed to be a contentious question; is there an agenda here to increase the proportion of those going to RMAS from state schools? [There is, anecdotally, at least, a correlation between ex-CCF cadets in the Officers' Mess and ex-ACF cadets in the barrack room?]
 
#3
I remember a girl at my CCF who when speaking to the schools careers advisor that she wanted to join as an OR quite flatly 'NO'. Also I've never meet any other CCF cadet wanting to join as an OR, for most it's officer or bust.

That said all the CCF cadets that I trained with were either from public or grammar schools, so these new Contingents may change that.
 
#5
eegeek said:
I remember a girl at my CCF who when speaking to the schools careers advisor that she wanted to join as an OR quite flatly 'NO'. Also I've never meet any other CCF cadet wanting to join as an OR, for most it's officer or bust.

That said all the CCF cadets that I trained with were either from public or grammar schools, so these new Contingents may change that.
The Duke of York's Royal Military School has a CCF. The school produces a good mix of standard soldier entry and officer entry recruits.

Anyone can walk into an Armed Forces Careers Office and join as a soldier, regardless of your background.
 
#6
schoolstaffinstructor said:
Hmm, I am thinking this could be a bad move, we already suffer from lack of funding for weapons.
The entire cadet system cost the MoD £80M last year: it's a dirt cheap way of recruiting via a 'non-recruiting medium'.

We all know how full the training areas are at the moment.
I'm not sure this is really true - excepting OPTAG, almost everyone is spending half their lives getting sun tans...
 
#7
Interceptor said:
The Duke of York's Royal Military School has a CCF. The school produces a good mix of standard soldier entry and officer entry recruits.
Queen Victoria School - Scottish equivalent of DYRMS. Same story; there was a fairly even mix between Officer and OR from the 1980s, when "CCF=Officers/ACF=Other Ranks" attitudes were even more likely.

I'll confess, though - I was CCF/RAF. My excuse was that I wanted to fly planes, and being short-sighted and colour-blind, I knew it was my only chance to get HM to pay for it all....
 
#8
There is clearly not enogh money for the ACF and CCF , hence we are having to wait for a replacement rifle. The just is not the money, add the fact they want to reduce rifle numbers anyway, from 1 to 4 to 1 to 8 or more
 
#9
After running an ACF Detachment in a Smallish Scottish town we received no support from the local schools. Would it not be a better idea to provide education to school heads about the benefits of the ACF and CCF and allow the ACF to work along side the state school's instead of creating a larger CCF. At the end of the day the ACF will ceases to exist if more and more schools open CCF units and make it compulsory for the pupils to attend.
 
#10
schoolstaffinstructor said:
There is clearly not enogh money for the ACF and CCF , hence we are having to wait for a replacement rifle. The just is not the money, add the fact they want to reduce rifle numbers anyway, from 1 to 4 to 1 to 8 or more
presumably to give them to new schools?
 
#11
oldist-recruit said:
At the end of the day the ACF will ceases to exist if more and more schools open CCF units and make it compulsory for the pupils to attend.
The new schools won't have compulsory membership. Nowadays you only really find that in the larger public schools and more and more of them are going voluntary anyway. Politically it wouldn't work in a state school as it would be seen as national service by the back door.
 
#13
isn't this part of Gordon broons initiative to expand the CCF or a completly seperate scheme altogther
 
#14
It seems to me there is a total mis-understanding of what the purpose of CCFs are. I think a large number of headteachers - both at independent and state schools need a better understanding of what CCFs achieve.

CCFs are not about Officer Recruiting for the army, although that is often a by product of their existence. CCFs are about developing military values-based leadership skills among teenangers with a view to them using them thereafter in the world of work.

Whatever profession kids follow the aim of the CCF experience is to ensure they are equipped with leadership and life skills to ensure success.

In my present job, since leaving the Army, I recruit graduates for a FTSE 100 company. The number of 21 year olds I see apply who have all the academic qualifications but none of the behavioural/leadership skills that I am looking for, is absolutely staggering. Its an indication of the damage done by our obsession with academic league tables. Schools no longer care about extra-curricular activties in the way that they used to - because their funding and results are not judged on weather they run D of E or CCF, or weather they encourage team sports.

Its a sad future we are looking at, I already have a number of young graduates in my organisation who you would normally look at giving leadership responsibility to within 2-3 years, but I know will not be capable of leading a team without very close supervision for at least 4-5 years.
 
#15
Many schools (Harrow, Eton etc.) that do have CCFs would never think of encouraging their pupils to join as anything other than an officer, as they also expect the same pupils to be aiming for similar career prospects in the civilian world, the difference being a larger salary. This says more about the schools than the CCF as an institution. ACFs are different in that they do not hold the same sway over the career paths, as the cadets can come from all walks of life.
 

elovabloke

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#16
fas_et_gloria said:
The entire cadet system cost the MoD £80M last year: it's a dirt cheap way of recruiting via a 'non-recruiting medium'.
Can anyone say how many we recruit for our £80/////////////
 
#17
ACFs are different in that they do not hold the same sway over the career paths, as the cadets can come from all walks of life.
That may be generally true, but there are school ACF's that are similar to CCF's in that respect. I am an AI at an ACF det whose cadets all attend a boarding school. Many of them are the sons and daughters of servicemen, invariably Officers, WO's and SNCO's and consequently they are encouraged to look at an officer career if they do choose to join the armed forces.

I am a graduate with a professional qualification as are 50% of the adult staff. Most of our youngsters go on to university and we see one of the most important things we do is to provide the chance to learn about and exhibit leadership. Since half of us are professionally qualified graduates we also encourage those who desire a career in civvy street to aim for professional qualifications post university.

I think the "Inspire to Achieve" motto of the ACF is very apt.
 
#19
I guess you'd be able to get that from MOD or CFF if you need it, but this page gives you the numbers

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...cyAndBusiness/CadetForceExpansionRevealed.htm

"There are currently 253 CCF units: 201 in independent schools and 52 in state schools.",
plus the new ones

The pilot scheme will receive initial funding of £800,000 in the 2006-07 financial year to establish new units in Haberdashers' Aske's Federation of Hatcham College and Knights Academy in London; Budmouth Technology College in Weymouth; Archers Court in Dover; Deacon's School in Peterborough and Treorchy Comprehensive School in Mid Glamorgan. It is hoped that the participation of a Scottish School will shortly be announced.
 
#20
eegeek said:
I remember a girl at my CCF who when speaking to the schools careers advisor that she wanted to join as an OR quite flatly 'NO'. Also I've never meet any other CCF cadet wanting to join as an OR, for most it's officer or bust.

That said all the CCF cadets that I trained with were either from public or grammar schools, so these new Contingents may change that.
Quite a few lads of my year/cohort who left school at O level stage went OR via the Junior Soldier/Leader route. Three went PARA Reg, one DERR and two joined the RE (with Barton Stacey on the doorstep) and another REME. One joined RAC JLs but left and returned to Sixth form. He then went into the RTR as an officer but PVRd again.
 

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