Training - Nice and Fluffy

#1
Picture the scene....

Individual fails CFT. Then makes a compaint that NCO had swore at them during test. Investigation into what/why NCO had swore at said indivdual.

Result: Excuse found to deflect fact that the individual could not pass a mandatory test.

Is this the shape of things to come?
 
#2
Not shape of things to come shape of things already here, perhaps we should do the no annual increment if tests not passed, medical categories permitting, not just the fablonned thursday biff chitters.
 
#3
A bigger incentive would be to remove the bounty for individuals who are not fit for role.

My main concern here is that disipline and the chain of command are being eroded. If your rubbish at your job, just look for an excuse to deflect the heat onto your line manager or anyone else who says something that is not totally PC.
 
#4
I reckon bounty should be changed from 'the longer you're in the more you get' to 'the fitter/better at your job you are, the more you get'. The bounty hunters would soon p1ss off and those wanted to be there would have a bit of incentive to put in some more effort. The CO's Certificate of efficency required for bounty should stop being in effect the gift of the PSAOs to those who don't necessarily deserve it..

I've chucked this out in the heat of the moment, so please feel free to slag off my ill thought out proposal. I'm sure its full of holes...
 
#5
You cant swear at people ?I might as well hand my kit in now then
having been sworn at verbally threatned and dragged kicked and punch
at times .We are supposed to be training for war .
I'm suprised said indviduial was not told to foxtrot oscar it was a
women wasent it
If failed motivate them and give them chance to qualify still 4
months to go .if unfit for role no bounty the tests are not that difficult
 
#6
Be real. Professional trainers should not have to resort to swearing or bullying to achieve their aim.

If you put yourself in a position, during training recruits or soldiers, where you have no-one to corroborate how crap the trainee was you are asking for trouble.

Also if you refuse bounty to someone who is a prime asset to your unit, be it because of their trade skills, management skills, man management skills or sheer experience that person will vote with their feet and leave you in the poo!

Motivate the person, invest your time as trainers to build up or improve the skill lacking and you will not only impress the person you now think of as a tosser, but drag a lot of other people along too!

Isn't that called "Investing in people?"
 
#7
fair points all the above points valid but what sort of soldiers whines at being sworn at . We all know soldiers who cant finish a sentance without a
swear word
 
#8
Where I am at the moment, failure of the CFT and you're out of pocket, CO's rules no CFT no FFR no money. Simple. :twisted:
 
#9
fuku said:
Be real. Professional trainers should not have to resort to swearing or bullying to achieve their aim.

Motivate the person, invest your time as trainers to build up or improve the skill lacking and you will not only impress the person you now think of as a tosser, but drag a lot of other people along too!
Yes and no. I normally try your advoacted approach and in the main it works but some people don't respond to this. Unfortunatley for some swearing and the threat of violence is the only way to get them to respond, its not the way I want to operate but it works. What can u do with the types that make u feel agressive? Report them.....yep that'd work ... not
 
#10
fuku said:
Be real. Professional trainers should not have to resort to swearing
Can anyone else see the point at which the grip on reality was lost.

ITS THE ARMY ITS NOT ABOUT BEING NICE ITS ABOUT BEING GOOD.

I suggest a career in the Scouts if rude words offend you.
 
#11
Any soldier who makes an official complaint of about being sworn at should be laughed at .And really think about handing their kit in we train
for a nasty stressfull job and if they cant cope with being sworn at for being unable to do a cft they should wind their neck and start training
hard (unless injured ) or foxtrot oscar
 
#12
I was on my MPCA in September. On the final attack I was one of the lucky ones dicked to be Section Commander of a composite section.

Half way through a section attack during which most of my section seemed to forget everything they had ever been taught, and therefore lots of swearing by me one tw@t says to me "I don't know what you do in your Plt but in our Plt we don't swear at each other". He was a full screw! I didn't know whether to laugh or shout and him. I went for the shouting swearing and spraying spittle at him option.
 
#13
WhiteHorse said:
Where I am at the moment, failure of the CFT and you're out of pocket, CO's rules no CFT no FFR no money. Simple. :twisted:
Exactly WH, and your CO is applying the rules correctly IMO. It's taxpayers money after all.
 
#14
hackle said:
WhiteHorse said:
Where I am at the moment, failure of the CFT and you're out of pocket, CO's rules no CFT no FFR no money. Simple. :twisted:
Exactly WH, and your CO is applying the rules correctly IMO. It's taxpayers money after all.
I don't believe that he is - IIRC the TA CFT has to be attempted to qualify for bounty, not completed.

msr
 
#15
I don't believe that he is - IIRC the TA CFT has to be attempted to qualify for bounty, not completed.
You're fcuking kidding, right? If that was the case, what would stop me gamely ambling 200 yds down the road before crying off and claiming my [the taxpayer's] cash?
 
#16
msr said:
hackle said:
WhiteHorse said:
Where I am at the moment, failure of the CFT and you're out of pocket, CO's rules no CFT no FFR no money. Simple. :twisted:
Exactly WH, and your CO is applying the rules correctly IMO. It's taxpayers money after all.
I don't believe that he is - IIRC the TA CFT has to be attempted to qualify for bounty, not completed.

msr
I'm sure the rules have changed recently, you now need to pass CFT to be qualified for bounty along with G&Z'd. Will check but I remember reading something from Land. Also everyone aware of the changes to ITD5?
 
#17
This is how it lies as I was last informed, you' think they'd announce it a bit better if there was a change in the system, have a look around TAC's for them.

ITD (A) No
ITD (A)
Bounty Req
Comments

PASS BOTH

2
Fit to Fight
Pass
TACFT

3
Battlefield First Aid
Pass
BFAT

TAKE ALL THREE AND PASS AT LEAST ONE

1
Personal Weapon Trg
Complete/Pass
LF 4

4
NBC Defence Trg
As above

5
Recognition
As above
Basic List

In addition ITD (A) 6 – 12 are required to be taken annually.
 
#18
the bloke in question obviously has no place in the military

as sombody pointed out, if he cant take being sworn at, how is he goin to react if he gets shot at??

a few years ago I had a section commander who hit me over the head (it hit my helmet) with the butt of his rifle. I didnt think what a cruel git he was, instead I was angry at myself for ******* up and making him resort to that

I have heard through the grapevine that said instructor has been dismissed from the army because of more incidents of this kind, so sombody obviously had a different opinion to mine
 
#19
Had one Engineer Cpl on a training course who once hit a recruit over the head with a fire extinguisher(hospitilised the lad obviously) he's over 30 now and will probably never make it to Sgt because of the incident. He should have been booted out though as should have been able to controll his temper regardless. Then again he was not reknowned (ok you spell it) for having much control over his anger, always going postal at the slightest thing... He's also a first class twat-his number shall have to go in my 'little black book for when I rule the world'.
 
#20
Train hard fight easy is no longer the case, now its:

train respectfully and... youre in for one hell of a shock Joe. The contradiction is that instead of training soldiers controlled aggression and the more demanding side of reality we train them to placate the demands of social workers and lawyers who have no understanding or ever will of combat or even public order duties. I think we all know who will suffer in the long run.

The Army is not a democracy nor is it a civil organisation with civil norms or behaviour. If you cant take it you shouldnt have joined. We are becoming WEAK
 

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