Tradesman First Soldier Second?

Discussion in 'REME' started by ArmrJay, Feb 4, 2007.

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  1. I seem to remember a few years back (4/5 years?) that an official letter came round saying that due to the growing complexities of equipment that the REME should now consider its troops as Tradesmen first and Soldier second. Does anyone else remember this or was it just a leg pull, as when I went through training they said we were soldiers first. I'm not advocating either I just would like to know the official stance as I can't find it written either way.
  2. The article you refer top was a guest editorial in the Crafty Mag, written by some Colonel at DEME(A) or SEAE, it posed the question but did not answer it.

    My opinion is that we must be soldiers first as there is little point in having REME soldiers on the battlefield if they cannot survive there.
    We do not need to be Infantry standard but we should be able to survive and fight there. Skills like calling for CAS/Arty would be useful, but if you can't send a contact report and defend youself if attacked, you have no business donning a green skin. (IMHO)
  3. Cheers Nige, I knew I had read it somewhere and I agree that there has to be a balance. Maybe we should start saying 'Soldier and Tradesman' (or vice versa) rather than trying to list them in order.
  4. I believe the most current expression of what we should be able to do is "Fight to Support".

  5. I'm wondering if an Iraqi insurgent or Al Queda knobber knows or cares...? We carry out our business on a battlefield as members of the British Army, therefore we are soldiers.
    Irrespective of capbadge/trade etc, I'm sure the first thing we get taught is how to soldier, THEN we get taught a trade. Admittedly, most REME guys could do with more military training, as IMO I don't think we do enough. I don't mean Infantry stuff,although low level stuff now and then won't hurt. I'm on about REME stuff, SADCHAP, Road moves & convoy drills, Cam & concealment etc all the stuff we used to be very good at, but don't seem to do anymore. I remember on TELIC 1, the majority of JNCO's in my unit didn't know what vehicle anti-ambush drills were, something I found a tadge worrying as we drove into Umm Qasar.
  6. And this is especially so, when supporting an Infantry Company. The Infantry would not want to be compromised by some ill trained REME fitter section, or whatever name it goes by these days. We should always remember that US Army workshop unit taken captive early in the present Iraqi conflict, all because they could not read a map properly.
  7. Just a giggle........... Would this not then warrant extra pay, or maybe a nice annual bonus? After all you join REME to fix stuff, not crawl about in mud and bullets, hell if you joined up to I dunno Rolls Royce as a fitter and expect to clean up the place! I feel the incoming already but hell as I see it men (oh and ladies now sorry) of the REME are employed on their grasp of engineering principles and academic abilities, again I backtrack and say I am in no way saying that an infanteer in a mortar platoon does not have the same mathematical quick thinking. In this life we have choices, if you want to trog about in muck all day the infantry has a place for you, If you want to fix stuff and get told by infantry/artillery that you should do that join REME, but just nod and smile at the bank balance every month ............incoming
  8. Jim Junior is REME. His training was always centred on soldier first, engineer second. That's how it's been in the the most recent few years, but before might have been different.
  9. D Inf have put together a new training package to address the issue of unit soldiering skills training. The All Arms Basic Close Combat Skills (AABCCS) Instr cse will be held at Brecon and starts later this year. The concept is that having completed the cse, NCOs will return to their units and deliver in unit training. The in unit training package has about a weeks worth of lessons.

    Whilst this is a laudable approach I can’t help but think that there may be a better way. I am not sure how credible these new tradesmen instructors will be after spending a short time at Brecon or what the uptake on the cse will be.

    As an alternative we could poach experienced infantry NCOs with the lure of enhanced career progression and the promise of more stability with postings to our training establishments. We could employ them in all large REME units to conduct training and on deployment they could be responsible for organising Force Protection. We would need a name for this new trade group and I would suggest Regimental Duty staff or possible Regimental Specialists.
  10. I dont know if anyone has thought of this but has anyone heard of the saying "jack of all trades, master of none"?

    I would like to know when all this "training" is going to take place?

    Before each tour or just after post tour leave so you will ready for the next one?

    Does it get mixed in with trade skills or are they a given?

    Pah, skill fade......and whoever thought of that old box thingy is totally hat stand......
  11. I also agree with you on that Nige, especially the "We do not need to be infantry standard" Some heads of sheds should take note of this, as i know some donuts out there ie OC's who have their full screw vehicle comdrs searching and destroying enemy CR2 tanks in their 512 / 513 and if that werent hilarious enough the same idiot has them dismounted 'searching and destroying CR2 with a SA80 affixed with a blank mag. I know, unbelievable, but it happens. I dont think half of these idiots have ever gotten away from playing toy soldiers with Giles, Rupert & Co when they were kids!!!
  12. Bluebells, that could have been quite a good "waah" there.....

    I hate saying this, but there are some who feel that actually, we should be looking at keeping a low level of trade and soldiering proficiency in barracks, with a view to ramping it all up whilst preparing for and deployed on operations.

    So, there's the extreme right of arc.
  13. up until i left in 95 you was always a soldier first and tradesman second,which imo should always be the case especially in lad of frg situations where you could be caught in the know about anyone else but i enjoyed the soldiering part of the job,especially being part of an infantry brick in n.i.are R.D. still employed to train reme personnel on all aspects of soldiering?map reading and tactical appreciation should be a very important part of military life no matter which corps you join.
  14. Spanner,

    I kid you not the new cse is being called the AABCCS Instructors cse. It has already picked up the nick name of the alphabet cse for obvious reasons. The first cse starts in Apr this year.
  15. It always used to be soldier first and tradesman second. The problem always was that the soldier training delivered by REME was by and large shiite. For young men who left training and had frontline infantry units for a few years their soldiering skills would be well up to speed. No LAD ASM would ever dream of trying to run a regimental training programme alongside professional full time soldiers but rather encourage some form of amalgamation.
    Those who went to REME units workshops, Bns etc by and large dipped out on essential continuation soldiering skills, because their unit training officers tried to "out soldier" the infantry/tanks/planks. I only ever heard of one REME CO coming to a loan arrangement with a local infantry bn under the guise of giving the infantry JNCOs real time instructional experience before employment as instructors in their regt. A shrewd man indeed IMHO.
    I don't want to use this as a tech bashing exercise but for some reason the techs used to get more instructers courses and act as deputy instructers in REME units, I hope this has changed and welcome any comments.
    I base my earlier comments on what used to pass for Regimental weekend training at Bordon, Our NBC training consisted of walking around the running track in the full gear. training value zero.