Track and Trace, Test and Protect. Civic responsibility v a moron’s charter

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Track and Trace or Test and Protect is going to rely of public cooperation and people doing their civic duty to comply.

The system will be voluntary. There are fears that some people will ignore a voluntary system that doesn’t have any punishments for non-compliance.

The latter is certainly true as a some people have ignored the compulsory requirements anyway.

It os difficult to know how you could have a compulsory system. If I tell the bod from track and trace that I have not been in contact with anyone that I’m aware of thats the end of the conversation.

If track and trace phone me and tell me to isolate and I say thank you and immediately go to shopping there’s no realistic system that could do anything about it.
 
D

Deleted 164106

Guest
Track and Trace or Test and Protect is going to rely of public cooperation and people doing their civic duty to comply.

The system will be voluntary. There are fears that some people will ignore a voluntary system that doesn’t have any punishments for non-compliance.

The latter is certainly true as a some people have ignored the compulsory requirements anyway.

It os difficult to know how you could have a compulsory system. If I tell the bod from track and trace that I have not been in contact with anyone that I’m aware of thats the end of the conversation.

If track and trace phone me and tell me to isolate and I say thank you and immediately go to shopping there’s no realistic system that could do anything about it.
What happened to the App that was going to be released? Was it abandoned or has it been delayed?
 
Track and Trace or Test and Protect is going to rely of public cooperation and people doing their civic duty to comply.

The system will be voluntary. There are fears that some people will ignore a voluntary system that doesn’t have any punishments for non-compliance.
What happened to the App that was going to be released?
I'm fairly sure the South Koreans were up to speed with all things App's etc.

They ended their lockdown on the 4th May.

24 days later

Officials in South Korea have re-implemented lockdown measures in the metropolitan area of Seoul, home to half the country’s 52 million population, following the biggest spike in infections in nearly two months.

Apps / prayers / hope are pretty useless. This virus will need to run it's course or a vaccine found sharpish.
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
I use a cheap old Nokia phone
drops in my pocket and always handy 10 days on a charge
it makes phone calls end of !!
I do have a smart phone but as it is a big clumsy lump and easily broken I never carry it with me
 

4(T)

LE
Its hard to see what this is going to achieve.

- Three months late, presumably most "contacts" will by now have been forgotten (and also already spread any infections);

- it relies on the user to accurately list contacts; so essentially "rubbish in, rubbish out", given the reliability & IQ of much of the UK population;

- the announcement mentioned (IIRC) that it "could" prevent "5-15%" of infections. Given the very low reported morbidity rate, this presumably means the initiative "could" save lives numbered in the single digits.

- if the system is used correctly, then simple mathematics would appear to suggest that millions of contacts might be reported. How and by whom will those millions be tracked and forced into quarantine?
 

Zulu_w

Old-Salt
I use a cheap old Nokia phone
drops in my pocket and always handy 10 days on a charge
it makes phone calls end of !!
I do have a smart phone but as it is a big clumsy lump and easily broken I never carry it with me
You sound like my MIL.

Bought her a smartphone to stay in touch as we are overseas.

Wife tries calling. No answer.

Wife rings the landline, after a wait phone answered with much puffing.

MIL: Sorry in the garden when you rang. Wife: Ok why didn't you have your smartphone with you?

MIL: Oh I keep it in the office desk drawer turned off to save the battery as I didn't need to call anyone.

Wife: WTF!! Loud conversation ensues. I clear the area and go pour a beer.

Remarking loudly and somewhat bravely from the bar "thank **** my folks are dead this COVID might not be all bad" has resulted in further disharmony. Think I shall open the whisky.
 

Bushrider

Old-Salt
My wife uses an app that is called C-19, just fills in well being info daily on me and her, weekly questionnaire, study being under taken by Kings hospital. Gives out local info on whereabouts of the nasty little thing.
 
How long before some 2@t thinks it funny or otherwise, to start sending spoof texts/e-mails?

Anyone caught doing it should get instant "life means life" jail time.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
The App was mentioned this morning. Apparently it was dropped because research suggested that too many people would refuse to engaged with it because of fears to do with data protection.

As bonkers as it seems I know people who have said they would not be prepared to down load an app that tracks their movements and traces their contacts. I’ve even seen people saying so on social media. The irony was lost on them.

I suppose if a significant number won’t engage there’s little point in doing it.
 
I use a cheap old Nokia phone
drops in my pocket and always handy 10 days on a charge
it makes phone calls end of !!
I do have a smart phone but as it is a big clumsy lump and easily broken I never carry it with me
If you want to be proper old school, you wouldn't have a mobile and you'd just have your servants answer the landline
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
If you want to be proper old school, you wouldn't have a mobile and you'd just have your servants answer the landline
My Brother thinks I am a Luddite, on a recent motorcycle tour his machine was equipped with a plethora of high tech stuff, chirping and bleeping and telling him where he was

my low tech Italian gas pipe special was equipped with a nokia phone in the tank bag ( turned off) and a map, and some pre cut cards
I got myself all the way to Basel no problemo, wrote down a few road names and towns and followed the excellent signs

next day he navigated
we ended up leaving the motorway to avoid slow moving traffic and took a bloody detour around Switzerland
lost 3 hours
all because Google said he should
then when we finally arrive at our destination very late very hot and very tired, he could not find it, it was next to the redbeards castle, which would be the bloody great castle thing with the signs pointing to it then ?
when I got home I downloaded the tracking data from my bikes security device
I am going to print that little detour off just for him
plus the other one on the way home
so you can see why I distrust technology
Generally when travelling, if the signs point towards a major town or city, then follow them, especially if its been there since Roman Times
 

Nornironman

Old-Salt
Disaster in the making....

App, people already saying screw that not giving anything to that w@nker Cummings and his mates never mind a list of all my contacts and location. Hantwat mentioned a one hour phone interview on radio 4 with track and trace people... that's not going to happen Joe public has the attention span of a gnat, and will not tell them a sodding thing. Phone call out of the blue.. hey stay at home for 14 days. Sod it I'm off to earn a living rather than get £100 SSP will be the standard answer. There are too many failure modes apparent before it's even kicked off. Pie in the bloody sky.
 
If I receive a call from them Test and Track, I shall make up my own mind wither I self Isolate of not.

I am not convinced about the system, I do not trust the Government , most of the actions of the Government have so far been questionable or mediocre at best

I would certainly want to know who I had been in contact with and has now tested positive, when they were tested and where did they come in contact with me.

In theory you could self isolate for 14 day walk out of your house and 24 hours later get another call to self isolate - ad infinitude

I have concerns that it could be used maliciously and I have data protection concerns - Putting Baroness Harding ex CEO of Talk Talk when it had a data breach, with Talk Talk taking a 20 Million pound bill and a collapsed share price in my opinion shows contempt for the general pubic and has eroded my confidence in the system.

With the numbers yesterday of 2000 new infections, which is the lowest number for 6 weeks it should give them a few hours work to start with

My own thoughts are I suspect that most of these new infections can been traced back to Health & Social Settings e.g. Weston Super Mare Hospital called a critical incident the other day and shut up shop - over 40% of staff tested positive for CoVid 19


Archie


Archie
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Disaster in the making....

App, people already saying screw that not giving anything to that w@nker Cummings and his mates never mind a list of all my contacts and location. Hantwat mentioned a one hour phone interview on radio 4 with track and trace people... that's not going to happen Joe public has the attention span of a gnat, and will not tell them a sodding thing. Phone call out of the blue.. hey stay at home for 14 days. Sod it I'm off to earn a living rather than get £100 SSP will be the standard answer. There are too many failure modes apparent before it's even kicked off. Pie in the bloody sky.
If I receive a call from them Test and Track, I shall make up my own mind wither I self Isolate of not.

I am not convinced about the system, I do not trust the Government , most of the actions of the Government have so far been questionable or mediocre at best

I would certainly want to know who I had been in contact with and has now tested positive, when they were tested and where did they come in contact with me.

In theory you could self isolate for 14 day walk out of your house and 24 hours later get another call to self isolate - ad infinitude

I have concerns that it could be used maliciously and I have data protection concerns - Putting Baroness Harding ex CEO of Talk Talk when it had a data breach, with Talk Talk taking a 20 Million pound bill and a collapsed share price in my opinion shows contempt for the general pubic and has eroded my confidence in the system.

With the numbers yesterday of 2000 new infections, which is the lowest number for 6 weeks it should give them a few hours work to start with

My own thoughts are I suspect that most of these new infections can been traced back to Health & Social Settings e.g. Weston Super Mare Hospital called a critical incident the other day and shut up shop - over 40% of staff tested positive for CoVid 19


Archie


Archie
Putting aside the aside the Cummings nonsense (anyone who says that would not have complied anyway) you raise valid points. What do you suggest as alternatives? The only viable alternative I can see is to continue lockdown indefinitely or give people some advice on limiting their social contacts and let them get on with it.

Sensible people will comply with track and trace. Morons will exercise their right to be morons. There will be a spike in infections in those communities that struggle with sensible behaviour. Guardian readers will wring their hands over why the virus disproportionally affects those parts of society.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
I've seen this posted on many people's pages -
"To all my FB friends who intend to install the COVID-19 app for tracking: From what I've heard about this, if you are installing this app, I am asking you to please delete me from your phone contact list, as well as unfriending me in Facebook before installing this app on your smartphone.
This app will ask permission to access all of your contacts.
You do not have my consent to use my phone number or facebook contact in connection with your app to identify, track, or locate me without my knowledge or consent.
I'm very serious about this. Thanks for understanding
This is the Government wanting everyone’s details.
Dont Fall for their App"

These would be the same people that splash their lives all over FB/Instagram/Whatsapp, probably have Smart phones (which track your location anyway), probably use Sainsburys/Tescos/Waitrose/M&S loyalty cards (which track what products you buy and where), probably have a couple of credit cards (tracking online and actual shopping), use online shopping (meaning that the email address you use will have adverts tailor made based on online viewing) and yet they worry about an app that could help save lives because the Govt might get hold of a few details (They already have your name, address, DOB, NI number, Tax details).
 

Mrs Fox

Swinger
My wife uses an app that is called C-19, just fills in well being info daily on me and her, weekly questionnaire, study being under taken by Kings hospital. Gives out local info on whereabouts of the nasty little thing.
I'm using a similar app called tell Zoe or something like that . You answer yes or no questions and if you answer yes to a question you can explain further .It's a daily app, but takes all of two minutes and it helps with research .
With regard to the government app, it seems that people have already written it off without trying it but will then complain bitterly that more should be done !
It's like parenting a petulant teenager who refuses all help , but when things don't work out, turn around and mouth off at the very parent trying to help .
If it weren't to for the fact that letting the virus run riot would cost considerably more lives , I wouldn't blamethe government if they turned around and said go on then do as you wish as you aren't following the guidelines .Its too risky but it must feel like they are bashing their heads against a brick wall at times.
 
On the assumption that no vaccine is delivered in the next couple of weeks, we are coming out of lockdown one way or another.
People just need to get a grip, follow the advice that's already been given and accept the fact if you are not a member of the shielded group you're going to get infected.
Hopefully with common sense the infection/recovery rates will fall within limits that the NHS can deal with between recording TikTok videos.
No democratic government can control the population to the extent that would be required to fully control this virus, it's pathetic to think otherwise and wail about lack of government action of Facebook.
 

endure

GCM
The App was mentioned this morning. Apparently it was dropped because research suggested that too many people would refuse to engaged with it because of fears to do with data protection.

As bonkers as it seems I know people who have said they would not be prepared to down load an app that tracks their movements and traces their contacts. I’ve even seen people saying so on social media. The irony was lost on them.

The difference in being tracked by Google and by the government is that Google wants to show you adverts whereas the government has the power of the legal system behind it.

Google and Apple have written a contact tracing app which is localised. It doesn't store any data centrally. It just looks at the phones near yours to see if you've had any covid contacts. It's been designed to maximise privacy.

The government are using their own app which stores data centrally.

 
Don't Australia have an app that works? If they do, why not just buy it, instead of paying some idiots over here to reinvent the wheel and by the sound of it fail to produce something that works well enough?

And it's Test and Trace now. They quietly dropped the Track bit in the last week or two with no explanation as far as I'm aware. Further displaying how hopeless the government is in getting a grip of the virus.
 

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