Tr 2 Next Actions for Redundees

Now that you have had the good/awful news you need to grip the procedure quickly so that you can get the very best from the system.

You should access JPA and read the Redundancy Administration section of the Self Service Guide, make sure that your Unit HR change your termination date on JPA, this will trigger a number of other processes. You will also need to keep checking your Workflow on the JPA system as much of the detail of your departure and Resettlement will be sent to you on the Workflow system. Also please read and adhere to the Tranche 2: Key Dates and Events document which will guide you through the more important events in the Redundancy procedure.

Other points you should action now include;

· Immediately contact the IERO to arrange an initial Resettlement interview.
· If you need to, submit a preference for a Final Tour of Duty (FTOD) location using JPA Form JPA 024, in order to establish your entitlement. Applicants must submit their requests by 3 Jul 12, Non-Applicants by 10 Aug 12.
· If in MQ or SSFA or SSSA warn off the HIC or Countrywide that you will be vacating your property, you should have done this by 26 Jun 12.
· If you are an LSAP recipient; arrange to repay the outstanding debt either by a cheque or from your Terminal Benefits.
· If you are a CEA claimant immediately give notice to your children’s’ schools however if they are within 2 years of taking GCSEs/A Levels or Scottish equivalents please talk to your desk officer.

· The deadline for submitting an appeal to your CO against selection for redundancy is 11 Jul 12.

· Complete PEN FORM 1 on JPA which will ensure your Pension is paid correctly, before 30 Oct 12 for applicants and before 29 Apr 13 for Non-Applicants.

We understand that this will be a difficult and stressful time for you but please remember that Unit HR is here to assist you and to guide you through the process so please stay in close contact with your desk officer.
Hi thanks for the info, I find out tomorrow if my app for redundancy has been accepted, just one question I am entitled to a resettlement grant do I get this before I leave so that I can do courses etc or is it paid at the same time as my redundancy payment. thanks
Fifer, I live in DB! Resettlement Grant, for 9/12 years service is paid once you leave but IRTC is paid to assist you with a Resettlement course, all will be revealed.
Only COs have the read-out: official notification is tomorrow at 0900hrs. Immediate chain of command is informed at 0800hrs.

Good luck to all concerned.
Am I wrong for thinking we're not supposed to find out until tomorrow? Who's already been told?
If you haven't heard early then I can assure you that you will definitely have been selected for redundancy. All the people that they want to keep have already been told they are safe in order that they can prepare themselves mentally for the trauma of being in the selection pool again in 4 months time!
If you haven't heard early then I can assure you that you will definitely have been selected for redundancy. All the people that they want to keep have already been told they are safe in order that they can prepare themselves mentally for the trauma of being in the selection pool again in 4 months time!
I only want to find out to avoid needlessly wasting yet another full day displaying above and beyond my default levels of interest ;)
Was lucky again - nervous 2 and 1/2 hour wait though as individuals were called through to the big man's office.
Does anyone know the dates for T3?
I wonder if, as a former compulsory redundee, having technically been in the army six times and held most ranks between shiny Private and grumpy Major might add something?

I absolutely hate this, not least because it is probably unnecessary. (I wouldn't mind betting that in 5 years time the army will have to be enlarged at enormous cost to face a new "emerging threat").

However, all may not be doom and gloom. I was made redundant in 1995, and 18 months later got a phone call from an old mate asking me to do a job in the Balkans as a "mobilised reservist", followed by an offer of an FTRS slot driving a desk at Land Command, etc etc, finally hanging up my boots when I felt like it in 2005.

If you get the black spot it may not be the end. You WILL feel huge anger, try and deal with it. While Director Manning is clearly a public relations novice the advice is not that bad, switching to a vacancy elsewhere, even in the Navy or CrabAir, leaves you in a service environment you are more or less familiar with. At least ask what is on offer.

Make sure you network like crazy with folks in the machine you know and capitalise on all those odd little courses you may have done. Anyone who thinks 30,000 TA, without enough training time or money will plug the gaps is on drugs (No disrespect to the TA, I spent 10 years as a TA officer, but training was never adequate and TA soldiers have real lives outside the army to worry about ). That means that, as with the US forces, there will be ever more full time reservists in the system, and that means opportunities to soldier on may well present themselves once the dust settles.

If you do decide to just go then be aware there are lots of civilian firms run by ex soldiers, particularly in the security world. Knock on doors and talk to people, don't just send off endless applications.

Don't forget the Education Grant ( ELC? Sorry mods, not sure what it is called now, but DETS (A) will know) you may be entitled to as well as resettlement provision, and use every single penny to get going outside, it's yours by right. You can dip into the education grant for up to 10 years. I used two thirds of mine to do a 2 year MA course at Birmingham Uni. It can be used for ANY educational course with DETS (A) approval.

Never give up!!

Good Luck.


Out of interest, and being out of the system therefore ignorant to resettlement measures, there was some Management Consultant, ex Lt. Colonel, on the BBC News today. He reckons that some redundees might have problems. Because "employers might not think ex military personnel will offer a short term benefit". Or something like that. Sure, getting oneself sorted out, qualified and up to speed ready for the transition to civilian jobs, is personal admin. No problems with that one. But while that blunt realistic view may carry some weight, it's not an exactly encouraging prospect for any redundee in the dog eat dog, civilian world, either. So while they're expected to fend for themselves after compulsory redundancy.... just look after them and hope some, if not all employers, understand their value.
As I’ve said on here very many times it is undoubted that ex-Military have some hugely valuable qualities which businesses are crying out for. What is necessary, however, is to find Veteran-friendly organisations to apply to.

An awful lot of organisations will give a big old “wa’evver” when faced by someone just leaving the mob as they have no concept of what it is we do. The big danger is the attitude displayed by a lot of people here & on places like LinkedIn who think that they are automatically better than civvies because of their service, an attitude which seems to be, sadly, perpetuated by resettlement organisations.

The only advice I can offer is to start networking as much as possible, use your resettlement sensibly, and make the most of any learning credits available. Get your CV sorted, but don’t stress too much about converting job titles to civvy speak, it is more important to say what you did and include numbers such as “led 90 soldiers” or “managed equipment worth £Xm”.

I’d also be wary of a lot of the so-called ex-Forces recruitment agencies. Of all the ones I signed on with only one found a single opportunity to put me forward for, one told me to revise my CV into a format not seen in civvy life since about 1980 & the rest never even bothered replying after initial contact. While I admit my CV may not have been perfect I found it odd that these so called specialists could not find a single role to put me forward for whereas the non-specialists have kept me in relatively sensible employment (even if I had to move around a bit & accept some crap pay in exchange for experience) for a considerable length of time.
I was demobbed in '73, no resettlement courses, or interviews, nothing. Went home, signed on the dole - nothing. After two weeks I decided to try London - the dole office went ecstatic. They offered me a rail warrant, and told me that they would pay 1 guinea towards my accommodation for a year. Remember, this was back in '73, and, I don't know if they still make the same offer.

In London I wasn't getting anywhere fast. Then, an office manager gave me this advice: he said that I was too experienced for the positions I was looking for, I was a comms specialist, and that supervisors wouldn't want to take me on as I could threaten their position for further promotion. He told me to keep it simple, just state what I could do and leave it at that. Then, out of the blue I got offered a job as a trainee foreign exchange dealer - never got the chance to try out his advice - still!

My advice would be to grab any job going. I found that it's a darn sight easier to get a job, if you are already employed. The old catch 22 syndrome. If you're unemployed, then, no-one wants you, but, if you're employed, then, someone thinks enough of you to pay you some dosh, make you a more attractive candidate.

If you get in the shit there's always the various forces benevolent societies, and SAAFA, who will all do their best to help you out.

It took me about 2 years to adjust to civvy St. Few civvies want to hear about your forces experience. You're a better man/woman than they are. You've been places, and done things they can't imagine, so, they just don't want to know, you're supposed to pretend that many years of your life never happened.

Good luck to you all.
Commiserations to all those on the list today - horrible experience, you will go through the Anger-Denial-Acceptance cycle...... let it happen but remember to build a plan.

Capt Plume's post is good advice.

I have advised a very large company with a large defence contract in the past and seriously it was at the level of "this is what a Corporal does, this is an Officer and they don't all wear red tunics and smoke clay pipes", you would be suprised at the level of ignorance.

And Capt Plume is right, the world doesn't owe you a living, nor will it respect things like Operational Tours - you are competing against others that need to pay a mortgage and they think just as highly of their own abilities.

One thing I have noticed is that the military is focussed on qualifications - to an extent, the civie world is more into experience, and that is communicated by telling people what you have done, in a way putting your best foot forward.

So for example, whilst it may be a good idea to spend some resettlement funds on a PRINCE qualification - that will probably not get you a job and few organisations outside government use PRINCE methodology anyway. What it will do is flag up your CV in an automated computer search, often done by some bloke in India overnight and the list sent to consultants or sourcers in a shared service centre somewhere in the Midlands.

BPT enter a world where contact with humans is minimised or outsourced overseas to save cost. Don't expect to be able to ring up your friendly MS rep in Glasgow for a discussion about your next job - that is gold plated service that just doesn't exist much anymore outside the Army.

Network - yes - most civie companies are looking to save cash by hiring direct. Even if you do get through to Arrabella in HR, chances are she is working for a recruitment agency anyway ( RPOs - Recruitment Process Outsourcing Recruitment process outsourcing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

So, even though you have applied to XYZ company and are a shoe in for the role, you may not get a shot at the role because you are not registered with ABC Recruitement Agency and the recruiter will put forward "their" candidate because they will make more commission on their own candidates. None of this will be visible to you and they won't return calls to explain this and you will become increasingly angry because no one will tell you what is going on behind the scenes.

Additionally, you will be competing with hundreds of UK hopefuls and hundreds of desperate folks from the sub-continent that flood recruiters inboxes with CVs every night.

Consider joining the TA, because it will be an income stream and it is a familiar environment to transition and the TA types may help you network. BUT the TA won't take just anyone, there is a culture that they only "take the best" from the Regular Army, so don't be disappointed if the TA knock you back - it is them, not you. They may also ask you to drop a rank, remember you are the newbie. On top of which, they only have a certain number of PIDs.

Yes - LinkedIn is good - most recruiters use it as a database of first choice because the candidates update it themselves and it saves money, the use of key words is the important thing so the search tool picks you up.

Best of luck, it's an awful experience and in my view unnecessary, just make sure you spend the time planning, researching and networking.
Some tips

The six habits of slightly unscrupulous*recruiters | Job news & advice | eFinancialCareers


After 50 job applications, you manage to get to speak to Arrabella the 22 year old "consultant" ( more likely you will only get the Sourcer/ Database monkey), after some banter she asks you

Where else are you interviewing? It's just that we don't want to mess things up by sending your CV to the same people and messing up your chances"

You think - cool, she is really switched on and proceed to tell her about the interview you got at XYZ company with Mr Smith and Mrs Brown.

5 mins later she will be on the phone to Mr Smith or Mrs Brown pushing her own candidates because you have a) told her there is a hiring going on and b) given her the name of the hiring manager, whereas the other recruiters are having to go through HR.

She might even mention your name IOT to take you out - Mr Smith will not look at you favourably now because you fell for the oldest trick in the book and Arrabella will be able to push her most expensive candidate forward, you have served your purpose and as a freshly out of the Army type, the industry experienced candidates ( that may NOT even be looking for a new job) will be a better bet than you.

HR won't ring you back ....... ever ....... and you will never know why you wasted an hour of you life talking to Mr Brown.
Paymaster - 1 quick question regarding the next actions.

How do we do most of these things if we have no access to JPA? I got the nod today and need to get things rolling but am in Middle East and have never had a JPA account.

My LS Admin office may be able to advise when I see them tomorrow but you clearly know your stuff inside out.
For some reason Hootch's link will not load on my PC. Another one to warn you about about recruitment agencies is that they are not actually recruiters, they are sales people. They do not care a fig for you or your preferences, they care only about how much money they can make for themselves.

Part of this is building an enormous portfolio of CVs, part is how many candidates they see. I have regularly been called in to meet a new consultant when teams change over, losing a day or half day's pay & incurring travel expenses, for no purpose other than to run through my CV yet again. Suppose this would be a good thing if they actually bothered updating their central databases but they don't - I've had to threaten the information commissioner on a couple who persisted in calling me several times a week after I found my permanent job.

They will also lie to you about pay. I took a job last summer which was paying well below what I am worth & normally receive, but needed the job; it was a quick commute; and I fancied a quiet summer. It turned out that the "special rate" the consultant had negotiated with the client left him with over 40% of the amount the client was paying for my services (market rate is about 25-35%) which was in breach of the client's fair use of agency staff policy, but I foun this out too late to do anything about it.

The last way they lie about money is if you work for the NHS. The Health Service has a set rate it will be paid for each Band that Agency staff work in. I have had the same job pitched at me by three different Agencies each quoting a different rate and each telling me this was the maximum amount the NHS would pay. Naturally they will take the highest rate allowed but only pay the Agency Worker the balance. They were a little put out when I told them I had a copy of the payable amounts at each level & perhaps we could start negotiationg from this point.

Sadly a lot of the time one has to put up with this or just not be put forward for posts...
I'm going to harp on again here about the support from the Royal British Legion available for ex-service members who wish to consider self employment (get used to it because I'll probably be banging on about it quite a bit across a number of threads... trying to find that fine line between trolling and getting some useful information out there)

The "Be the Boss" programme is government money, administered through the Royal British Legion for providing business start up support and on-going business mentoring for ex-members of the armed services. The difference with this scheme unlike the bollocks perpetuated under the Business Link brand is that there actually is real cash potentially available for those prepared to jump through the admin hoops. It's not not megabucks but potentially it could be a couple of grand that could go a long way to helping you get started.

The funding is in the form of grant+loan which is novel. You'll see what I mean if you try getting a business start up loan from any bank although Barclay's were doing one with a 19% interest rate (you'd be better off selling a kidney).

To register for the programme go to Home and sign up and you should get a referral to your nearest business advisor. It costs you nothing.

If you have any questions and can't get through to Civvy Street you can always drop a line to or call on 01642 367937 and they'll be happy to offer any help and support they can.

Some things I've learned since leaving Lizzy's employ and working for myself that boys and girls might find useful is:
1. Recruitment agencies are in the main 95% liars, 4.9% scumbag liars, 0.1% decent people who will actually take their job (and you) seriously.
2. Learn to speak "civvy"... punctuating every sentence with "****" is rarely appreciated and reducing everything you talk about to TLA's (Three Letter Acronyms) will just get you blank stares.
3. You know that really dark (sick?) sense of humour that all forces people develop... well it doesn't generally go down well with Doris from accounts.
4. You do NOT have to call your boss "sir" unless he has a knighthood
5. Office "team building days" are not 24 hour benders
6. You most definitely will not "bond" with your civilian counterparts by downing 18 bottles of Stella and a curried kebab then trying to engage them in a semi-naked wrestling contest in the bar or demonstrating how many bottles of beer you can lift using nothing more than 3 foot of para cord and your testicles.
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