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Tory Sleaze & Corruption

#4
It will always happen. Try and tell me that corruption only happens in fuzzy-wuzzyland! I got cookie a few beers in the Mess and now I get extra bacon in the mornings. Is that corruption?
 
#5
Perhaps it's just me then, but these idiots ('coz that's what they have to be, to be doing this sort of thing) can't need the money, yet still they go around doing the equivalent of some Tom putting in for a travel claim that he never made. I simply don't understand the logic of what goes through their minds.

I'm not in the Service for the money. If I was, I'd be sorely dissapointed. Nurses, I would venture to suggest, are in a similar boat. MP's bring in good money (admittedly, some of them have to work long hours), and yet, for some, it just doesn't seem to be enough. Do you think it's some kind of russian roulette with their careers? Are they in denial that they will ever be caught out? Haven't all the cases over the years shown that these things come out? If not, do you think that what we see is just the very tip of the iceberg and that the corruption is endemic and so they take their chances? Is one thrown to the wolves now and again to save the rest? Either way, it just makes me mad that they do it in the first place.
 
#7
And isn't this just the point? Have we reached that point that we just don't care anymore? We'll go through weeks of denials, refusals to go, "I was just misunderstood" etc etc. Eventually he'll go, and we just wait for the next one.
Never heard the phrase 'greed follows greed,

Corruption is in all walks of life Not just within the realms of the Tory sleaze which has plenty of History over, Politics or Corporate, it's not only domestic but worldwide.
 
#8
Tory sleaze and corruption? How dare you ignore the efforts of all politicians of every political hue to bring home money for access deals, helping hands for party donors, peerages for cash. The tories are just the latest in a long line of venal, self-serving, scum.

As far as outrage goes, each time they get caught out the rules are changed, 'lessons are learned' a 'line is drawn under this' a 'clear message sent' and we move on. Any of the MP's expenses that were queried, the money was paid back and that was that, try that in the real world, court case, criminal record, and lessened employment prospects.

Do you think the drunken **** headbutting some openly gay man in a bar would be allowed to remain in employment until they wanted to leave, or would they be sacked for bringing the company into disrepute?

Yes I would say that most people hold MPs in contempt, the apathy shown at elections is because the electorate has given up.

Did I mention that I don't have any great respect for the piano-faced, schmoozing prisms? I don't.
 
#10
I agree with all of the above - this is not shocking. Indeed, this is the very basis upon which Market Liberal democracies operate. In academic circles it is called investor capture of government. To normal people, it is a complex web of bribery and corruption which is the sole basis upon which all political parties in the UK arrive at policy.

The Conservatives are not so much a political party as simply the function of a lot of very rich people trying to bribe ministers into helping them get even richer.

Thankfully one can't be sued for libelling a political party so feel free to repeat the above ad infinitum.
 
#11
I agree with all of the above - this is not shocking. Indeed, this is the very basis upon which Market Liberal democracies operate. In academic circles it is called investor capture of government. To normal people, it is a complex web of bribery and corruption which is the sole basis upon which all political parties in the UK arrive at policy.

The Conservatives are not so much a political party as simply the function of a lot of very rich people trying to bribe ministers into helping them get even richer.

Thankfully one can't be sued for libelling a political party so feel free to repeat the above ad infinitum.
So you admit that your statement is libel then?
 
#12
As far as outrage goes, each time they get caught out the rules are changed, 'lessons are learned' a 'line is drawn under this' a 'clear message sent' and we move on. Any of the MP's expenses that were queried, the money was paid back and that was that, try that in the real world, court case, criminal record, and lessened employment prospects.
Former Labour MP Margaret Moran will be pleased to hear that. She's up in the Crown Court next month on 21 counts of expenses fraud including submission of totally fabricated invoices. Apparently, she's too sick to stand trial though. I do hope the judge issues a bench warrant for her arrest.

That's a strange coincidence as, when "irregularities" were uncovered in her expenses, she immediately became too sick to attend Parliament in order to cooperate with the investigations. Despite being too sick to work, she was fit enough to be filmed in a Panorama sting offering to get legislation changed for £100 grand.

Margaret also managed to remain Chairman of Eurim Ltd, a company with a board of directors entirely composed of MPs and peers. Following an all expenses paid Eurim trip to India, a number of Indian IT companies suddenly gained exemption from UK immigration regulations for their staff. They could send staff to the UK without needing work permits. A select few were also given dispensations by HMRC, meaning the companies and their staff paid no tax or national insurance of any kind. They even got their VAT back when they went home.

This effectively made British IT staff unemployable in areas where these companies operated. I know people who lost their jobs, homes, families, the lot. I hope Margaret goes to prison for a very long time and experiences terrible trauma at the hands of butch lesbians and a manky bog brush.

FFS, I just watched the video. "You'll get dinner in No 10 and a photo with the PM". No offer to get legislation changed, invade oil rich countries or have anybody killed. It is truly mortifying to see how the Tory Party, two words once synonymous with every form of sexual, political and financial sleaze, has cleaned up its act. Alan B'stard would be spinning in his grave. If he was dead.
 
#13
So you admit that your statement is libel then?
It is unproveable, because a political party will always say that receiving hundreds of thousands of pounds from rich businessmen in "donations", and then suddenly announcing public policies that those same businessmen will profit enormously from, is simply a "coincidence".

We are expected to believe that these enormous sums of money have no bearing on public policy. Also, that ex-ministers taking directorships in the companies their political parties took "donations" from whilst they were in office, another remarkable "coincidence"!! Just as those who privatised the utilities under Thatcher and Major, only to then go on and take highly paid roles with them once out of office, was a "coincidence".

And Andrew Lansley's private office being paid for by a private health care provider is another "coincidence".

However, it is not libel, because you cannot libel a political party.
 
#14
It is unproveable, because a political party will always say that receiving hundreds of thousands of pounds from rich businessmen in "donations", and then suddenly announcing public policies that those same businessmen will profit enormously from, is simply a "coincidence".

We are expected to believe that these enormous sums of money have no bearing on public policy. Also, that ex-ministers taking directorships in the companies their political parties took "donations" from whilst they were in office, another remarkable "coincidence"!! Just as those who privatised the utilities under Thatcher and Major, only to then go on and take highly paid roles with them once out of office, was a "coincidence".
Of course these payments have a bearing on public policy. It's how the system works, it's the only way to get elected, and it's something that all the major political parties do. It's wrong, but pure democracy is impossible and I can't see a way around it.
 
#15
Of course these payments have a bearing on public policy. It's how the system works, it's the only way to get elected, and it's something that all the major political parties do. It's wrong, but pure democracy is impossible and I can't see a way around it.
Actually it would be very easy to regulate for - you'd just need to reform the whole criminal justice system!

It still goes on because ministers and business want it to continue and because the British government is highly competent at willfully keeping public opinion in complete ignorance of what is happening in the corridors of power.

I do not think voters should be able to exclude all other vested interests (such as business), but business has almost completely succeeded in excluding the voter from government, which is why all political parties have produced almost identical economic policies for the better part of 35 years!
 

mercurydancer

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
To balance things out, Ive known a few Labour guys to do exactly that - to set up a privatisation/ PFI deal, then go straight to the board of directors. Vile? Yes. Illegal? No.

My view is that the Conservative party is less sleazy than Labour under Blair, but Blair set the standard pretty low. Its hard to exceed the sleaze of someone like Mandelson.

The tories dont need to sleaze, they just dont care what they do, as long as the business and financial sector is protected and pandered to. In reflection, thats exactly what Brown's government did.
 
#17
To balance things out, Ive known a few Labour guys to do exactly that - to set up a privatisation/ PFI deal, then go straight to the board of directors. Vile? Yes. Illegal? No.

My view is that the Conservative party is less sleazy than Labour under Blair, but Blair set the standard pretty low. Its hard to exceed the sleaze of someone like Mandelson.

The tories dont need to sleaze, they just dont care what they do, as long as the business and financial sector is protected and pandered to. In reflection, thats exactly what Brown's government did.
All three (soon to be two) mainstream political parties in Britain are identical in this regard. Over a period of approximately 12 years, beginning after the defeat of Michael Foot in the 1983 General Election, the Labour Party steadily divested itself of almost all of its members who were irreconcilably hostile to the unimpeded free market. This began under Neil Kinnock and involved expelling great swathes of members who had 'left' tendencies, and it culminated under Blair in the scrapping of Clause 4. It was facilitated by invoking near dictatorial powers to the party's central office, which bestowed upon itself (and retains to this day) the right to impose a Prospective Parliamentary Candidate upon any constituency party, regardless of the constituency party's preferences. This ensures that the only MPs admitted to Parliament from hereon in are those considered acceptable by the central office machinery. This power has been supplemented by the sort of vetting mechanism which would probably rival Developed Vetting in the Civil Service/Military, whereby every aspect of a candidate's private lives and beliefs is probed before they can be considered "safe" (i.e. pliable enough to do as told by the leadership).

The two political parties likely to have control of government for the foreseeable future are just as willing to prostitute themselves to big business as each other. Politicians in Britain are no longer capable of even thinking for themselves, indeed, they are not accelerated through their respective party ranks on the basis that they might be! The whole purpose of British politics at present is that leading politicians are not required to think - this is the reason they have an ever expanding and ever more expensive plethora of private advisers. Indeed, one Andrew Lansley had private consultants McKinsey drafting legislation for him - legislation which, now law, will guarantee a highly lucrative revenue stream for them! It is a mechanism for ensuring that all political policies derive from and are not overtly hostile to the owners of wealth. This is the very reason why income is taxed in Britain at much higher rates than dividends or capital!

The United States has a very large part to play in this fiasco. There is no need for them to interfere in the internal workings of the Conservative Party, since it will produce pro-US candidates almost by default. However it has had a considerable part to play in the advancement of leading figures in the Labour Party. Some may care to note that Ed Balls (Shadow Chancellor), Yvette Cooper (Shadow Home Secretary) and David Milliband (former Foreign Secretary, very nearly Leader of HM Loyal Opposition and almost certainly the next leader of the Labour Party) are all Kennedy Scholars! For those who will no doubt accuse me of tin-foil hat theories, I suggest they go read the official terms of reference that the Kennedy Memorial Scholarship exists to serve!

David Milliband was all set to dutifully take his place at the helm of the Labour Party, but what was not reckoned with was the constitution of the Party which gives 1/3 of the voting constituency to Trade Unions, who duly spoiled the plans and elected "Red Ed".

However Red Ed is playing his part admirably - by rewriting the Party Constitution to make sure that such a misnomer is not repeated!
 
#18
And as if to try and treat the British public as even bigger total saps than Conservative Party policy officially allows, Mr Cruddas has resigned and released the following statement:

"Clearly there is no question of donors being able to influence policy or gain undue access to politicians. Specifically, it was categorically not the case that I could offer, or that David Cameron would consider, any access as a result of a donation. Similarly, I have never knowingly even met anyone from the Number 10 policy unit.

"But in order to make that clear beyond doubt, I have regrettably decided to resign with immediate effect."


Convincing, wouldn't you say?
 
#20
'Will they never learn?' I don't think they will. 'They' being politicians.

I don't think they will learn until punishments are made appropriate for wrong-doing and prisons are made exceptionally unpleasant. Same goes for all criminal scum of course, but politicians who have 'power' should be punished more severely simply because they have 'power'.

I honestly believed things could only get better post the Blair-Brown Terror; how wrong I was.
 

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