Tory leadership Round TWO

Who goes into Round 3?

  • Gove

    Votes: 76 42.0%
  • Johnson

    Votes: 158 87.3%
  • Hancock

    Votes: 8 4.4%
  • Hunt

    Votes: 92 50.8%
  • Raab

    Votes: 64 35.4%
  • Javid

    Votes: 42 23.2%
  • Stewart

    Votes: 33 18.2%

  • Total voters
    181
Actually most are agreed that he does have political nous common sense. that is why he has done the postings he has.

As for my life. Well we are both Fellows of related Clubs. All be it his is the Scottish version and I am in the London one which is the senior. Also he has more books published than I do. Ironically as the challenge is from "history man" both Rory's books and mine are on history.
Difference between diplomatic and political and I doubt very much that "most" would, maybe most in his small part of the world certainly not in mine!
 
Yes - this is a fine example of political nous.

Rory Stewart vows to ‘bring down’ Boris Johnson if he suspends Parliament over no-deal Brexit


I can't understand why the remain supporting majority in parliament don't just declare Westminster redundant, set up a new parliament and declare Brexit suspended.

Go Rory, go....

Wordsmith

I'd love to know how he'll have a sitting "legitimate" alternative parliament without the mace, and the other baubles, plus won't he need Bercow to be seated in it?
 
I have been sent this comment by a chap who knows his onions.

"My own view is that we should have a final run off with Boris Johnson and Michael Gove. They are both committed Brexiteers but would do it differently. Michael Gove is a formidable operator who has been seen to drive a government department. He has a tremendous grasp for detail and gets things done. I think he can navigate us out of this maze.

I like Boris. Despite having flaws and being a bit chaotic and sometimes inconsistent, there is something sincere about him. He does not do detail and would need to bring in a team who could. He might be able to be a bit like a Reagan figure who had a knack for bringing in good advisers and getting it right. He does have a certain star appeal for many. "

I find his view compelling. The idea of " a charismatic dreamer" backed up by "a boring, accountant like , chief of staff" is no surprise to students of military history. It is a combination that has worked.
Agree with all of that except the point of Gove being a committed Brexiter, I don't think he's committed to anything except whatever will advance his career. Boris on the other hand, whilst making it very clear he'd love the job, is able and willing to turn his hands to other things and, IMO, is a committed Brexiteer.
 
I'd love to know how he'll have a sitting "legitimate" alternative parliament without the mace, and the other baubles, plus won't he need Bercow to be seated in it?
Well it's a long shot, but I think the poisonous, traitorous, diminutive cuckold just might be interested in taking centre stage and screwing up Parliament even more than he has already, with a big dollop of frustrating Brexit like a cherry on top...
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
The trouble as I see it, is the present membership (of which I am out of date 8 years) are an unknown and the same arguments, which got Cameron the leadership could be applied to dear rory i.e. the best man to beat labour is from the centre ground.

How much do the membership want Brexit and are willing to take a chance on someone not of the centre.
Given that recent utterances by St Rory of Stewart indicate he's five loaves and two fishes short of a picnic, I suspect he's toast at 1 pm today. I doubt either the parliamentary party or the membership are so stupid as to elect Stewart to the leadership.

Wordsmith
 
Given that recent utterances by St Rory of Stewart indicate he's five loaves and two fishes short of a picnic, I suspect he's toast at 1 pm today. I doubt either the parliamentary party or the membership are so stupid as to elect Stewart to the leadership.

Wordsmith
Fingers crossed, although I'm not as sanguine about the (80% remain?) Parliamentary Party.
 
The trouble as I see it, is the present membership (of which I am out of date 8 years) are an unknown and the same arguments, which got Cameron the leadership could be applied to dear rory i.e. the best man to beat labour is from the centre ground.

How much do the membership want Brexit and are willing to take a chance on someone not of the centre.
It's not the membership that's the problem. Its the establishment who don't want BoJo. Don't forget that DC was the establishment's 'boy'. Members wanted David Davis.
 
It's not the membership that's the problem. Its the establishment who don't want BoJo. Don't forget that DC was the establishment's 'boy'. Members wanted David Davis.
I still expect the media negative campaign to ratchet up to pre-Brexit fear levels, once the other candidate is decided. Never forget the members voted for Cameron, so take nothing for granted and your never shocked.
 
It's not the membership that's the problem. Its the establishment who don't want BoJo. Don't forget that DC was the establishment's 'boy'. Members wanted David Davis.
Although, rumour has it that Osborne (Evening Standard et al) may be swinging behind Boris, but to what end is not known. One would have thought it would be Stewart, but apparently not.

As posted above, Stewart's greatest success has been to make this campaign (so far) about him and Boris, thereby largely marginalising the others. Even if he doesn't make it through to the next round, he has succeeded in boosting his credentials no end....
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
It's not the membership that's the problem. Its the establishment who don't want BoJo. Don't forget that DC was the establishment's 'boy'. Members wanted David Davis.
The Tory MP's and activists have taken two massive shaftings in the local and European elections. They'll be well aware that electing a leader who (a) fails to deliver Brexit or (b) delivers a Brexit that leaves us tied to the EU's apron strings is going to result in the party being out of power for a generation.

As such, an Establishment stitch up in this leadership election is unlikely - self-preservation is kicking in.

Wordsmith
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
The Tories are leaving things a bit late - the result of today's ballot is not being announced until 6pm approx with the next televised debate at 8pm, doesn't give the losers much time to get their daggers stuck in and for MPs to rush round trying to work out who to switch their 'allegiance' to! :p
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
The laugh is on the one or two who get their Beeb invitation cancelled at the last minute.
 
I still expect the media negative campaign to ratchet up to pre-Brexit fear levels, once the other candidate is decided. Never forget the members voted for Cameron, so take nothing for granted and your never shocked.
You're. No thanks are necessary, pedantry is its own reward.

Re: the media, you seem to be conflating the general public with the Party members; they're already voting Tory so are far to the right of anyone in broadcast media.

It's very easy to rubbish him nowadays with 20/20 hindsight and his behaviour over Brexit, but Cameron was an excellent Party Leader in many ways and actually led the Tory Party back into government - no mean feat.
 
Agree with all of that except the point of Gove being a committed Brexiter, I don't think he's committed to anything except whatever will advance his career.
He also once described himself as “not equipped to be Prime Minister”, and he was quite right. For me, Gove, whatever his talents, lost all credibility when he scuppered Johnson at the last minute in 2016, thus condemning us all to three years of Mrs Dithering-Daily and indirectly giving the commie traitor a real chance of power in 2017. Few people like a back-stabber, even in the cynical world of politics - where, admittedly, they’re fairly thick on the ground.
 
You're. No thanks are necessary, pedantry is its own reward.

Re: the media, you seem to be conflating the general public with the Party members; they're already voting Tory so are far to the right of anyone in broadcast media.

It's very easy to rubbish him nowadays with 20/20 hindsight and his behaviour over Brexit, but Cameron was an excellent Party Leader in many ways and actually led the Tory Party back into government - no mean feat.
The party morphed into a Blairite party in everything but name, apart from laissez faire economics.. I would expect the same arguments, that convinced you and me on voting Cameron in the leadership election, could probably still sway many of the membership on an alternative to Boris...

On some level are any of the parties prospective leaders Conservative ? from the biographies and includes Boris, they are varying examples of progressivism.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
He also once described himself as “not equipped to be Prime Minister”, and he was quite right. For me, Gove, whatever his talents, lost all credibility when he scuppered Johnson at the last minute in 2016, thus condemning us all to three years of Mrs Dithering-Daily and indirectly giving the commie traitor a real chance of power in 2017. Few people like a back-stabber, even in the cynical world of politics - where, admittedly, they’re fairly thick on the ground.
To get to the top in politics, you need to be intensely ambitious. But you can get to the top in two ways. You can do in in a courteous way without trampling people underfoot, or you can stab people in the back at every opportunity. BoJo strikes me as one of the former; he seems to have got to the top on personality and his well honed 'buffoon' act. Gove seems to have elbowed people out of the way in his rush to get into No. 10.

As a result BoJo is held in better regard by the broader Tory party. He proved reasonably good at running London and he doesn't seem to use subordinates as sacrificial goats when things go pear shaped.

You suspect Gove would throw anyone under the nearest bus if it meant deflecting blame from his shortcomings as putative PM. Trample over people on the way up and don't be surprised when they're reluctant to see you in the top job.

Wordsmith
 
The party morphed into a Blairite party in everything but name, apart from laissez faire economics.. I would expect the same arguments, that convinced you and me on voting Cameron in the leadership election, could probably still sway many of the membership on an alternative to Boris...
Firstly, I didn't vote for Cameron and even if I'd been a member then would have voted for Davis. That doesn't mean that I don't remember how effective Cameron was as Leader.

Secondly, in answer to your earlier supposition that the Tory membership is likely to go all remain and anti-Brexit, please read this from Guido:

Tory Members Would Rather See Scotland Leave and the Party Destroyed than Lose Brexit -

Brexit in the eyes of the overwhelming majority of the grassroots Tories is bigger than the Party, is bigger even than the Union; it's a fundamental matter of obeying the democratic instruction of the electorate, without which politicians will never be trusted again. Also, it's the only possible route to electoral success.

And as a grassroot Tory myself, I believe they are right.
 
The ConservativeHome website conducts regular surveys of Conservative party members, including covering who they would like as their next leader. According to the latest, published today, 55% of members want Johnson – his highest ever score in these tables. Rory Stewart is in second place, but he is well behind, on just 16%, followed by Dominic Raab, Michael Gove, Jeremy Hunt and Sajid Javid, all in single figures.
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Tory membership figures
 
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