Tory Leadership Round Four

Who goes through to the next round?

  • Gove

    Votes: 40 36.4%
  • Hunt

    Votes: 73 66.4%
  • Javid

    Votes: 7 6.4%
  • Johnson

    Votes: 107 97.3%

  • Total voters
    110
  • Poll closed .

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Wasting time? What have we been doing? We have been making lists...



We haven't gone away you know.
Making lists, that always goes well. You’d think given what happened in the past, with so much written evidence to convict the losers. People would stop doing it.

And as for not going away, you will. Your sort always does. You get your day in the sun for a while. It’s just a pity you shitwits caused so much trouble with so little to show for it.
 
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Much as the Tory leadership battle is bound up in Brexit, that doesn't mean I or anyone else wants to rehash in/out with you or have to scroll past your marathon posts on this thread. Stick to the issue of the leadership please, and for God's sake exercise your right to brevity.
If you want to have people congratulate you for your ability to insist that anything to the right of the extreme left wing is now considered to be far right, or insist that Boris is the only candidate who can deliver a meaningful Brexit, and to do so without any evidence - fine.

I try to do better than blind assertion that your one-liner "to think otherwise is not based in reality", because I'm willing to listen to other perspectives. My apologies for daring to question your opinion in your echo chamber, I wouldn't want your bubble to feel threatened by dangerous alternative perspectives on the leadership campaign that will likely define our economic success (or failure) for the next generation.

I await, Sir, your next dismissive comment;
G
 
If you want to have people congratulate you for your ability to insist that anything to the right of the extreme left wing is now considered to be far right, or insist that Boris is the only candidate who can deliver a meaningful Brexit, and to do so without any evidence - fine.

I try to do better than blind assertion that your one-liner "to think otherwise is not based in reality", because I'm willing to listen to other perspectives. My apologies for daring to question your opinion in your echo chamber, I wouldn't want your bubble to feel threatened by dangerous alternative perspectives on the leadership campaign that will likely define our economic success (or failure) for the next generation.

I await, Sir, your next dismissive comment;
G
Well the last thing I want to do is keep you waiting.

Whilst I'm gratified and flattered that you've taken the time to read back through my comments, my pleasure is limited by your willful miscomprehension. I'm not threatened by alternative perspectives, dangerous or otherwise; I'm bored by monomaniacs rehashing the same arguments they've advanced time and again, on every thread they believe is worthy of their wisdom. I'm quite happy to engage with those who I disagree with; @Spec-op1989 is poles apart from me on most issues; we manage to carry out reasonable conversations (with added insults thrown in, the filthy communist) without monopolising or derailing a thread. @Fat_Cav disagrees completely with me about Johnson; however, he does so without using Hampshire's allotted share of pixels to drone on about his views on Brexit.

I view threads on Arrse as conversations, not an essay writing competition. Every now and then a lengthy post is necessary if you want to explain a particular point in depth; ploughing lengthily through the same old field time and again is different, and becomes dull very quickly. Whilst conversations meander off topic, they usually end up back on topic (ish). Unless of course they get diverted by some monomaniac monopolising the debate, posting reams of repetitive arguments and creating artificial and skewed either / or questions which will "prove" they were right all along.

To recap: I'm not frightened by having my beliefs challenged, I'm bored by your repetitive posts, and mildly irritated that consciously or unconsciously, you seem to be trying to derail an interesting thread about one of the most important issues of the day. As I said previously, there's a whole section here devoted to Brexit; IMHO that's the place you should be writing monologues on how Brexit's going to be the fifth horseman of the apocalypse to which there is no solution apart from abandoning it.

I hope I haven't made you feel your bubble is 'threatened by dangerous alternative perspectives', or worse, bored you.
 
As I said previously, there's a whole section here devoted to Brexit; IMHO that's the place you should be writing monologues on how Brexit's going to be the fifth horseman of the apocalypse to which there is no solution apart from abandoning it.
Hear, hear, hear!
 
I hope I haven't made you feel your bubble is 'threatened by dangerous alternative perspectives', or worse, bored you.
Not at all, and thank you for a considered response.

It's tricky, when dipping into a mature thread, to spot the nuances between "yes, but the immediate problem that either candidate will face when they start running the country is X, and it's a biggie" and appearing to be a monomaniac. Yes, I regard Johnson as a both incompetent and lacking integrity; and Hunt as... doubtful.

I appreciate that you think Johnson best meets your wishes for leadership, but I do worry that he'll put personal advantage well ahead of party interest or national interest (AIUI the counterargument from the 1960s was the quote "what's good for Ford is good for the USA"); while he's probably a better bet than Hunt for any General Election, he could still win the battle but lose the war.

So: having tried to out-compete each other for the necessary votes of those who favour a harder Brexit, how do you read their likely behaviour once they've got the top job? Double down on the rhetoric, or start a rapid dash back to the political centre ground while talking about "necessary compromise" and "reconciliation"?
 
@Fat_Cav disagrees completely with me about Johnson; however, he does so without using Hampshire's allotted share of pixels to drone on about his views on Brexit.
Cheers mate. Short and succinct, like my sex life
 
Not at all, and thank you for a considered response.

It's tricky, when dipping into a mature thread, to spot the nuances between "yes, but the immediate problem that either candidate will face when they start running the country is X, and it's a biggie" and appearing to be a monomaniac. Yes, I regard Johnson as a both incompetent and lacking integrity; and Hunt as... doubtful.

I appreciate that you think Johnson best meets your wishes for leadership, but I do worry that he'll put personal advantage well ahead of party interest or national interest (AIUI the counterargument from the 1960s was the quote "what's good for Ford is good for the USA"); while he's probably a better bet than Hunt for any General Election, he could still win the battle but lose the war.

So: having tried to out-compete each other for the necessary votes of those who favour a harder Brexit, how do you read their likely behaviour once they've got the top job? Double down on the rhetoric, or start a rapid dash back to the political centre ground while talking about "necessary compromise" and "reconciliation"?
My belief is that Johnson will go back to Brussels and actually negotiate. The present EU stance of "no more negotiation is extremely likely to fall apart; if it doesn't we will leave without a deal. From the negotiation I expect a deal which will be imperfect, but will not tie us to the EU in the way that May's WA would. Neither side will get exactly what they want; that's the nature of negotiations, but you have to go into them fighting for everything. If Johnson bottles it and caves in to a rehash of the WA, he and the Tory Party are toast. He knows this and I believe he is prepared if necessary to Leave without a deal.

Realistically, it doesn't matter what Hunt thinks, as he's not going to be PM barring the death or imprisonment of Boris.

I don't believe that leaving without a deal will be a rip roaring success, nor do I believe that it is the harbinger of the end times. No doubt there will be some economic penalty, however we are the 6th biggest economy in the world, and can weather whatever temporary setback a WTO terms departure results in. Most importantly, I believe that it is worth any setback to leave the control of the EU, as was voted for in the referendum. Not to do so will result in the failure of our democracy, and that is more important than the economy.
 
Making lists, that always goes well. You’d think given what happened in the past, with so much written evidence to convict the losers. People would stop doing it.

And as for not going away, you will. Your sort always does. You get your day in the sun for a while. It’s just a pity you shitwits caused so much trouble with so little to show for it.
You seem a little upset.

Do you always get this upset when losing?

You ought to get your blood pressure checked.
 
If Johnson bottles it and caves in to a rehash of the WA, he and the Tory Party are toast. He knows this and I believe he is prepared if necessary to Leave without a deal.

Realistically, it doesn't matter what Hunt thinks...
Do we know which has a better relationship with the DUP, and what their likely attitudes are to Northern Ireland (I'll avoid any jokes about building bridges)?

In other words, how devoted are they to absolute Unionism? (Wondering if they ever have to trade off the benefits of "getting a renegotiated deal through Parliament" against losing the support of the Dinosaur Deniers...)
 
Do we know which has a better relationship with the DUP, and what their likely attitudes are to Northern Ireland (I'll avoid any jokes about building bridges)?

In other words, how devoted are they to absolute Unionism? (Wondering if they ever have to trade off the benefits of "getting a renegotiated deal through Parliament" against losing the support of the Dinosaur Deniers...)
To be honest it doesn’t matter ‘who has the better relationship’ with DUP; what matters is how Johnson plans to deal with them. I guess we’ll find out.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Was listening to Radio this morning, was said that the return of ballots had been quite slow to date.
Indicative of 2 things, folk aren't voting because they think it is a done deal
Or
They are considering it carefully and it might well be a lot closer than anticipated.
 
Just finished watching the BBC interviews by Andrew Neil. Bloody hell.

Well nobody can complain the candidates haven't been rigorously interrogated now. Johnson was far more harshly treated than Hunt by Brillo, fair enough as he's most likely going to be PM. He was on the back foot for most of 30 minutes, but even with rapid fire questions and continual interruptions Neil didn't manage to land a knockout blow. Boris bluster didn't stop a severe probing of his weakspots, but it did blunt the combative style of Neil. Johnson was Bloodied, but not defeated, and that's what he had to do. Neil made one major mistake i feel, by taking at least five minutes going over the ambassador issue too much.

Hunt's interrogation was gentler, but just as searching. He was found wanting on a couple of issues with no real argument , particularly matching his recent remain -ish statement prior to this campaign to his present position on Brexit, but overall did fairly well. Not that I think it will matter.

No doubt the usual media suspects will declare victory and defeat as per their own views, but that's my debrief done.
 
Just finished watching the BBC interviews by Andrew Neil. Bloody hell.

Well nobody can complain the candidates haven't been rigorously interrogated now. Johnson was far more harshly treated than Hunt by Brillo, fair enough as he's most likely going to be PM. He was on the back foot for most of 30 minutes, but even with rapid fire questions and continual interruptions Neil didn't manage to land a knockout blow. Boris bluster didn't stop a severe probing of his weakspots, but it did blunt the combative style of Neil. Johnson was Bloodied, but not defeated, and that's what he had to do. Neil made one major mistake i feel, by taking at least five minutes going over the ambassador issue too much.

Hunt's interrogation was gentler, but just as searching. He was found wanting on a couple of issues with no real argument , particularly matching his recent remain -ish statement prior to this campaign to his present position on Brexit, but overall did fairly well. Not that I think it will matter.

No doubt the usual media suspects will declare victory and defeat as per their own views, but that's my debrief done.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Just finished watching the BBC interviews by Andrew Neil. Bloody hell.

Well nobody can complain the candidates haven't been rigorously interrogated now. Johnson was far more harshly treated than Hunt by Brillo, fair enough as he's most likely going to be PM. He was on the back foot for most of 30 minutes, but even with rapid fire questions and continual interruptions Neil didn't manage to land a knockout blow. Boris bluster didn't stop a severe probing of his weakspots, but it did blunt the combative style of Neil. Johnson was Bloodied, but not defeated, and that's what he had to do. Neil made one major mistake i feel, by taking at least five minutes going over the ambassador issue too much.

Hunt's interrogation was gentler, but just as searching. He was found wanting on a couple of issues with no real argument , particularly matching his recent remain -ish statement prior to this campaign to his present position on Brexit, but overall did fairly well. Not that I think it will matter.

No doubt the usual media suspects will declare victory and defeat as per their own views, but that's my debrief done.
I thought Johnson came over as a slippery sought who can’t be trusted.

I missed the Hunt grilling so can’t comment, was he asked or has Hunt confirmed what he meant regarding ex service men being treated the same as so called ex terrorists?
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I thought Johnson came over as a slippery sought who can’t be trusted.

I missed the Hunt grilling so can’t comment, was he asked or has Hunt confirmed what he meant regarding ex service men being treated the same as so called ex terrorists?
No.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Do we know which has a better relationship with the DUP, and what their likely attitudes are to Northern Ireland (I'll avoid any jokes about building bridges)?

In other words, how devoted are they to absolute Unionism? (Wondering if they ever have to trade off the benefits of "getting a renegotiated deal through Parliament" against losing the support of the Dinosaur Deniers...)
Johnson’s been seen publicly wandering around Stormont with Arlene, he’s also been over for dinner at party dos.
I suspect he’s keeping them on the back burner just in case the upcoming GE goes as badly as Mays last excursion and he needs buns on seats.
Johnson will do what needs to be done, especially if all it takes is promising someone else’s money.
 
I suspect he’s keeping them on the back burner just in case the upcoming GE goes as badly as Mays last excursion and he needs buns on seats.
When will this "upcoming" General Election be, oh fount of all wisdom?
 
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