Torture in Iraq???

#3
According to the Sun, "one of the images, which it did not publish, showed an Iraqi POW gagged and bound, hanging in netting from a fork-lift truck driven by a British soldier. Other snapshots allegedly depict soldiers committing sex acts near captured Iraqis.
."

This is intriguing.  I can't think of any reason, other than necessity, for treating a prisoner like that.  I doubt that the RRF would get a kick out of it.  And what are these "sex acts" allegedly being carried out (and photographed) - and which the plonker with the camera thought were so innocuous that he was happy to take the film along to HappySnaps for d&p?

It all looks like a bit like the Collins saga again.
 
#4
This could end up being a witch hunt against anyone who handled any prisoners - any hint of rough handling and watch out.  The press will make a big deal out of it whilst not realising that if you treat prisoners with a certain amount of aggressiveness they are less likely to try and give it a go.  
One of the comments about Camp X-Ray from the yanks was that the reason they were bound up so well was because the prisoners had threatened to take the lives of the prisoner handlers.  Ok, there is some grounds for complaint under the geneva convention, but as the old saying goes, better to be judged by twelve men than carried by six.
 
#5
You can't even get your own private pics developed without some spotty teenager looking at them.

Do the police arrest any photo journalist who happen to take a photo of Kuwaiti's being hung by Iraqi's in Gulf 1.
 
#6
No but the journalists weren't the ones doing the hanging.
By the way don't knock the poor spotty kid in the photo shop, he needs to look at the photos to ensure that they are done properly.
Oh and there are the fringe benefits of looking at the pics people send in of their girlfriends/wives/bit on the side posing in very little/nothing.
(I was that spotty kid - top job!!)
 
#7
He may be a REMF who wants pay back for not being at the front and wants to satisfy his ego thinking that a few slaps and the rest make him a man, and make it up for missing the action.

Pure conjecture but I have seen it before.

Either way it is nothing compared to the way that they treated prisoners but in our f#ucked up culture of treating the bad guys well we will always be f#cked, we are a masochistic society.

As for the sun backing the boys f#ck them I trust the daily Mirror and Pravda more as at least you know where you stand.

The Sun should have said nowt until case proven but same old shite with tabloids two-faced bastards.

Chris
 
#8
...bizarre isn't it......the yanks hold a shed-load of people captive; bound, gagged, blind-folded without trial or legal assistance for over a year.  The Brits (allegedly) give a few POWs an incy-wincy bit of rough handling and all hell breaks loose.

The media need to get a sense of perspective...and a fcukin life....... :mad:
 
#10
...bizarre isn't it......the yanks hold a shed-load of people captive; bound, gagged, blind-folded without trial or legal assistance for over a year.  The Brits (allegedly) give a few POWs an incy-wincy bit of rough handling and all hell breaks loose.

The media need to get a sense of perspective...and a fcukin life....... :mad:

incy-wincy hun? Well I'm sure you understand the difference between terrorists and enemy combatants, well I would hope you do. While I personally could care less what happened, trying to compare it to our detention center is BS. But I'm also sure you knew that too.
 
#12
Well I'm sure you understand the difference between terrorists and enemy combatants, well I would hope you do.
Isn't that dependant on who is doing the defining? You've heard the saying that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, I'm sure. Are you saying then that the US wouldn't have kicked up a fuss if we had bound, gagged, and sensorally deprived the "good ol' boys of the IRA" (that it must be remembered many of your countrymen/voters bankrolled through NORAID and the same terrorists given legitimate status by your former President Clinton by inviting Adams to the White House), held them on one of the deserted Orkney Islands, and denied them the right to legal due process and stopped the International Red Cross from having access to them? The "Irish American" lobby would have been up in arms about that and you know it. So no, that isn't BS, it's a good point well made! It seems that when the US goes around exporting it's version of "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" it conveniently bypasses anyone that would either put up a bit of a fight (N Korea, China) or where the administration would loose votes (N Irish Republican terrorists). I recall the sweeping generalisations of Pres. Bush about his war on terror and taking out the terrorists and their supporters. By that same logic then, perhaps we should have sent over a few Tornados and Cruise Missiles to take out Boston and Chicago, 2 of the cities which donated so much money to the same Irish Republican cause that has costs the lives of so many British Soldiers and policemen?

Also, are you telling me that the life of one human being has more value than that of another depending on whether you define him as a combatant or a terrorist? I would refer you back to the question above and ask if you are suggesting that it is ok to treat one human being differently than another because you define what he is fighting for and the methods he uses as terrorism, and another as a combatant because it is politically expedient? I don't for a second condone the murderers of Al Quaeda, but two wrongs do not make a right!

Could a British Soldier have tortured an Iraqi? I don't know, it's possible but let's wait and see when the facts come out. Knowing our press, having got bored supporting the troops and putting them on a pedestal are going about their usual business of knocking them off again as they were happy to do with Tim Collins, meanwhile  I am sure the Guardian readers are having an onanistic frenzy and frothing at the mouth at the prospect of having something to criticise the armed forces about  :mad:
 
#13
Well put woopert.  I wholeheartedly agree that the events of the 11th were an unspeakable atrocity, but the US administration, rather than suddenly appoint themselves "global policemen" should have had a good, long, hard look at themselves and at least asked why a rather large percentage of the world's population had taken a dislike to them.

As for the incident with the Iraqi POW, I will reserve judgement until all the facts are known.
 
#14
Once again I find myself in the uncomfortable position of being in complete agreement with woopert  ;D

I have swung from being fairly pro US to now being almost completly anti US.

The way that they have conducted themselves in the sandpit is a disgrace. They have shown that the majority of their forces, both land and air, deserve the "cowboy" handle that they have been landed with. the hypocrisy that is going on is unbelievable.

After all, as woop pointed out, the spams bankrolled the most effective terrorist organisation that has ever existed, costing the lives of thousands of civilians and service / police personnel over the years and what was their answer to this? To invite the bearded b*stard adams and that smarmy fcuker mcguiness to the seat of american power for a good old chinwag :mad: Where was their "war on terrorism" then ?

I noted a blatant "amercanism" the other day after visiting a yank site (listed on here somewhere) which listed all of the allied dead. I noticed, with blood boiling, that all of the Brits who had been killed by the fcuking spam air force cowboys were listed as being "killed by fire", whereas the Brits killed by the Chally blue on blue were blatantly listed as being killed by "British fire". The b*stards had doctored it to look like they hadn't killed any of our guys and that we were the bumbling incompetents! :mad: :mad:

The final straw was that c0ck sucking civvie "major" having a pop at Collins just because he (the spam wannabe) couldn't grasp the concept of "orders" and "rank". But then again, being a member of the spam mil, I suppose we shouldn't expect too much. Noticed that the yank papers made a big deal about it whilst consigning all of their own amateur fcuk ups to column 5 on page 27.

They have proven again and again that they are not worthy of the support that we give them. Until they get their heads out of their arrses and realise that the world does NOT revolve around them and that they are NOT the "moral guardians" that they have convinced themselves that they are, then I say fcuk em, let them fight their own battles. Whilst I do not condone in any way shape or form any terrorist attack against anyone, yanks included, I no longer see why the fcuk we should have to follow them around just to show them how to do it properly.

Jobs done in Iraq now, so lets get the boys home and leave the sceptics to sort the mess out. If we leave them on their own out there, the place won't be a problem after a couple of years because by then the yanks would have killed every child, woman and man (in that order) at VCP's.

In the mean time, I shall be waiting with baited breath for the CIA to come and snatch adams, mcguiness and co and cart them off to cuba.
 
#15
Eagle- disgraceful... ok so what would you propose we do with them?

woopert- Yea I'm sure attacking Boston or Chicago would have served your cause well. I suppose all of those IRA boys were given 3 hots and a cot and sent home right? I didn't support the IRA nor did I ever see them as anything but terrorists, granted I was a tad young in those days.

If a man/woman decides to become a terrorist and chooses America as his enemy, then yes to me his life isn't worth spit, nor his family or pets. If one chooses to join the Military of his country and ends up facing us on the battlefield I will give respect as it is due. I can distinguish between enemy soldiers and terrorists and I consider them different, if you don't that’s your choice.

I don't consider those that target a civilian population to be honorable, but I don't make policy at this time so it's pretty much pointless. As for clintoon, I didn't like much of what he did, but I guess I was a minority at that time.

ORG When were you in the "Sand Pit" ? Just figured it was important since you seem to have witnessed all of our forces at work throughout the duration of the operation.

Do you have a link to that site ORG? There are many sites up and running, some by questionable moderation to say the least.

Yea ORG I wouldn't hold the bar too high for the US Military, you know we're all backwoods, corn fed, hicks or inner city thugs.

-- Well I can see that this board has become an American bashing forum like so many others on the wagon. I wish you the best in your pursuits and hope that you never have to serve along another American soldier. As well I hope none of my former soldiers have the displeasure of seeing what our "Allies" say behind their back.

Tis a shame I'll say.

Good Bye, and enjoy your circle jerk.
:-X
 
#16
ORG When were you in the "Sand Pit" ? Just figured it was important since you seem to have witnessed all of our forces at work throughout the duration of the operation.
I was there the first time round, during Gulf War 1, remember, when you lot managed to kill more of our lot than the Iraqi's did?

As for this time round, I have been in constant contact with ex comrades out there, who, once again, have said that they were more worried about being slotted by yanks than they were by the enemy.

As for the "wagon" of american bashing, have you ever stopped to wonder why this wagon is now so fcuking big?

Perhaps its just a conspiracy by the entire world against the US, as your politicians and press would have you believe. Or maybe, considering that this site is the mouthpiece of the military of your closest ally, that we are all just a bit p1ssed off with the arrogant, egotistical way that the spams conduct every fcuking thing that they do. You lot NEVER, EVER seem to think that you are wrong, you think that the rest of the world should believe what you believe, should do as you do, should accept that americas mistakes are justified whilst the rest of the worlds can not be tolerated.

Well, wake up. All that your actions have done in the last few years is made previous supporters like me (go back through my posts and you will see that previously I have venomously supported the yanks) realise that you are a bunch of inward looking idiots that have absolutely no perception of what the rest of the world is doing or wants.

Your military sites are a joke, with the majority of the participants thinking and saying that any complaint about the unprofessionalism of your forces (i.e. not being able to differentiate between friendly and enemy targets) is "whining", whilst all of your own fcuk ups are just simple "mistakes".

Your press constantly highlights our shortcomings but fails to report that once again, the US has managed to kill more Allies than the iraqi's did.

Don't presume to lecture me about my knowledge of american armed forces, I worked with them long enough and had enough experience of their unprofessionalism to know that I should be more worried about them than I ever was about the enemy.

Like it was so eloquently put by a Brit Mil advisor on CNN, "You can tell they aren't americans because they have all of the points covered and are not running around shouting "yeah ha" and "whoo hoo"

You want us to believe in you lot again? Stop killing our troops, train your idiots to recognise the difference between friends and foe (please do not give me the “fog of war” crap, our lot managed not to kill any of your lot), stop bleating about how the world is so nasty to you when you haven't done anything wrong and stop funding terrorist organisations which have killed hundreds of the soldiers that stand side by side with you lot every time you come crying for an ally.

You want a perfect example? Members of this forum have been BANNED from military.com for raising views that question the ethics or techniques of the yank military, or for stating points incredibly similar to your last post. Try and log on here again tomorrow, or the day after, or the day after that, I can pretty well much guarantee that you will have access, i.e. NOT BANNED for using your right to free speech. But then again, this is the UK, where free speech is not some rhetoric spouted from a constitution that is only upheld when it suits the guardians of that constitution. For better or worse, we actually let people do it without trying to shove our philosophy down their throats and then banning the people who do not toe the “party line”

You live in a country of hypocrites, run by hypocrites and defended by amateurs whose strength comes from numbers, technology and money but NOT from a God given right to dictate how the rest of us should live.
 
#17
I didn't support the IRA
No, but thousands of your countrymen did and the US administration did nothing to stop it.

I can distinguish between enemy soldiers and terrorists
So what's the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter?

Well I can see that this board has become an American bashing forum like so many others on the wagon.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but if you have learned anything whilst you have been on this site it should be that a British Squaddie will always "call it like he sees it".

Tis a shame I'll say.

Good Bye, and enjoy your circle jerk.
:-X
Now if that means you will no longer be frequenting this site - then that is a shame - but you seem to be displaying the kind of attitude that has been highlighted by a few of the posters.  Namely, that anyone who disagrees with the US should be ignored.  If you feel so strongly that you or your country has been misrepresented then stand and fight your corner.  If you are right and everyone else is wrong then it should be a piece of cake to convince everyone.
 
#18
The individual American Infantryman is ****. (thats why you only see special forces abroad...which is not to hard to id as they have airborne and SF badges up the ying yank...for a bunch of bloated gits.... do they have any chefs... because I only meet SF...nobody will admit to being REMF)

Ok bubba give em a burp fire.  ****.

Battle drills at any level.

Stop.

Air strike....lots of.

Run around like headless chickens.

reorg when CNN arrive.

Apart from that they get the job done.

Chris
 
#19
Was it me? I can't answer for other soldiers mistakes and retarded actions. I don't know the situations and I wasn't there, I know mistakes happen and will happen.

How many were lost to "Fcukin yanks" this time? I know of the A-10 F'up, and patriot idiots. I don't recall hearing anything other than those, but I'd gladly read any additional information you may have. I also recall one UK vs UK incident, so I guess everyone has a chance to make a mistake...


Our politicians and press are also against us about 50% of the time.  I've never expressed that mistakes should go unpunished, if you F'up you pay the price and don't whine about it. We know we make mistakes, hell we put them up on TV for the world to see. How many other countries broadcast their mistakes world wide?

I'm sure the world would prefer we act in their behalf and disregard our own interests, it can't ever happen. Many good things have come by way of my country, as well many blunders have also. For the most part I feel the world is better off through our actions, but I'd guess I'd be solo here.

I don't know which site you have visited or what was said, I know I've debated at length many folks that don't support anything about the US.  Your choice to generalize about US forces leads me to believe you lump them into one category, while I can assure you there is more.

I have heard of no UK shortcomings, as a point of fact I have only heard good things about your forces. I'm not sure which "Press" your viewing, but you should realize that some couldn't paint anything in a positive light concerning the war. How many deaths were due to US forces?

I don't lecture, I simply ask a questions to further my knowledge about your information on the topic at hand. So because you worked with some idiots that makes everyone idiots? That is a weak excuse to say the least. Why would I even attempt to discuss at topic with someone that has already classified the entire US Military as unprofessional? You have made up your mind about hundreds of thousand of people through your experiences? So should I judge your military through your actions...

CNN are a bunch of idiots. Again another point of generalization, if you feel this way there is no point discussing it with you, you have decided

I'm not here to convince you, I'm here to try and understand why there is such anger. Don't place me in the lot that condone blue on blue, I've posted here before when that A-10 F'up happened, I totally backed the UK side of that incident. I also don't believe in the fog of war crap, I know what goes on out there.  I don't fit your mold of the "American soldier" and neither do a vast amount of American soldiers.

Well I have seen people last a long time spouting pure BS and propaganda, as I said I'm not informed as to what you posted. I'm no Moderator and have no control over them, why they do what they do is of their own accord. *shrug* Bring more facts and less fire is all I would suggest. "Toe the line" I love that phrase, it's so short yet so pointed.

Again with the generalizations... I have dictated nothing to  you, yet you say I have. Yup I'm an amateur, I don't have a shred of skill nor the faintest hint of a soul. Until next time.  I wish I had more time, as it's running out I must end sooner rather than later. I'm sorry you have such a disdain for the US forces, because there are no greater friends than the ones your currently berating.

(Had to remove the parts of your post, as it said it was too long to post)
 
#20
No, but thousands of your countrymen did and the US administration did nothing to stop it.

Thousands... ?among hundreds of millions, and the rest of us get the blame? They can't keep our corporations straight...


So what's the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter?

Were we occupying Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria or for that matter any other state? If they are fighting us while we occupy their country they are FF's, if they strike out because they don't like us and our government and target our civilian population they are terrorists. IMHO


I'm sorry you feel that way, but if you have learned anything whilst you have been on this site it should be that a British Squaddie will always "call it like he sees it".

Call it like he sees it? I'll not delve into this phrase at this time but perception is often skewed by the media or other information sources. I've seen many generalizations that I know for a fact are severely incorrect, but I suppose that is how they "see" it.


Now if that means you will no longer be frequenting this site - then that is a shame - but you seem to be displaying the kind of attitude that has been highlighted by a few of the posters.  Namely, that anyone who disagrees with the US should be ignored.  If you feel so strongly that you or your country has been misrepresented then stand and fight your corner.  If you are right and everyone else is wrong then it should be a piece of cake to convince everyone.

It's not the disagreement that is a concern, I'd expect it. It's the general statements and constant pointing of fingers toward the US forces.  Why blame everything on the US? Has no one else committed a wrong in the world, is there no greater evil than the US?

Are they perfect? Not a chance, but they are by no means as ruffian or wild west as has been portrayed here.

It's not about being right or wrong, I'm not here to change any opinions. I was looking to see the reasoning behind the hate I've witnessed here. My facts are my experiences and what I know, I can't show it to you as proof of my point.


Work is ending and it's time for a bit o' sleep, I'll see what you have to say in 12 hours. Have a day!
 

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