Tories would give military key role in rebuilding Afghan...

#1
Details of how the force would be configured had still to be decided, although Tory officials envisaged a role for the Territorial Army, calling on the skills of its builders, engineers and lawyers without the need to give them the extra security that civilian aid workers require.

[snip]

The plans will alarm the Department for International Development (DfID) created by Tony Blair in 1997, not only because of the implied criticism of its work in Afghanistan. Mr Osborne and Mr Hague have left open the possibility of drawing on DfID funding to finance the force.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6980088.ece

msr
 
#2
Scrap DfiD and form a US-style Corps of Engineers.

Actually, a new foreign aid/reconstruction entity should be led by TA personnel, and not regular Army - regs lack the necessary experience base.
 

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#3
4(T) said:
Scrap DfiD and form a US-style Corps of Engineers.

Actually, a new foreign aid/reconstruction entity should be led by TA personnel, and not regular Army - regs lack the necessary experience base.
A sort of cross between THF and the Army; I've argued that case for donkeys. 'S a good plan.
 
#4
msr said:
Details of how the force would be configured had still to be decided, although Tory officials envisaged a role for the Territorial Army, calling on the skills of its builders, engineers and lawyers without the need to give them the extra security that civilian aid workers require.

msr
Did it mention a need for estate agents.....? :wink:
 
#5
msr said:
Details of how the force would be configured had still to be decided, although Tory officials envisaged a role for the Territorial Army, calling on the skills of its builders, engineers and lawyers without the need to give them the extra security that civilian aid workers require.
But ... but ... where are all these builders, engineers and lawyers going to come from?

Danny_Dravot said:
yeah i heard about these mythical types too, and with the exception of a few i met from 21 sas most have not been. the majority have either been students, on the dole or other 'normal' jobs...
tedbun said:
Having being deployed with stabs, it amazes me that he had a job in the first place as most are only signing up as they would be unemployable anywhere else.
Osborne, Hague, General Sir Richard Dannatt: get with Danny and Ted. They know the real score.
 
#6
It is just really yet another case of stating the blindingly obvious. There are enough open source documents including the British latest approach to COIN, McCrystals Strategy and the latest couple of 2 Star missives about the MOD inability to Command and the uselessness of the Int effort, which all lead to the same conclusion.

As for Cameron, it is just a cheap bit of electioneering, accept that we have failed to take, hold and build and then come up with a no cost solution, the mythical capabilities of the TA.

Yes there are professionals in the TA but they are doing other things already and there numbers would not sustain continuous deployments over ten years or so.

If the Tories win the next election and if they were to look at this seriously costs would probably kill this before it got off the drawing board.

Mind you there was a mention of cost savings:

without the need to give them the extra security that civilian aid workers require.
Outside the wire without the necessary protection perhaps?
 
#7
Good idea, I've also mentioned a few times that we should have a THW (German stylee) TA formation. With less fighty fighty more buildy buildy and hugging.
 
#9
Spectacular. Someone in the Tory camp has finally got round to reading the US Army/Marine FM3-24 and Gen Petraeus' work. Its only been 4 years since it was published, and 3 since the Septics have started putting it into practice in Iraq + Afghan.
 
#10
Blyth_spirit said:
western said:
Mind you there was a mention of cost savings:

without the need to give them the extra security that civilian aid workers require.
Outside the wire without the necessary protection perhaps?
So much better than DFID if you can do your own top cover.
Yes but any unit of experts would provide the same escort as DFID. Only difference would be a few personal weapons.
 
#11
Dr_Evil said:
msr said:
Details of how the force would be configured had still to be decided, although Tory officials envisaged a role for the Territorial Army, calling on the skills of its builders, engineers and lawyers without the need to give them the extra security that civilian aid workers require.
But ... but ... where are all these builders, engineers and lawyers going to come from?

Danny_Dravot said:
yeah i heard about these mythical types too, and with the exception of a few i met from 21 sas most have not been. the majority have either been students, on the dole or other 'normal' jobs...
tedbun said:
Having being deployed with stabs, it amazes me that he had a job in the first place as most are only signing up as they would be unemployable anywhere else.
Osborne, Hague, General Sir Richard Dannatt: get with Danny and Ted. They know the real score.
Yeah, right....

CVHQ RA/RE(or whatever its called these day) have about 200-300 professionally under-utilised (as in their military job does not draw on their civilian professional skill set) individuals.

If a proper worthwhile "Corps" were to be formed that actually used and enhanced the skills of its civilian-military personnel, then it'd soon attract plenty of the necessary talent, and would evolve the types of terms of service that would allow a better fit with civilian careers and employment. E.g. sabbatical or short-contract detachment to "the Corps" might be viewed as a professional enhancement.
 
#12
And you could do the same for linguists.
 
#13
Excellent Idea.

There is a large amount of people working around the world in construction who are ex British military and Ex-Royal Engineers.....you offer the right incentives and you have more than filled every position.

Those of us who have left the forces and gone into full time employment in our trade have a level of experience unattainable while in the army in relation to that trade. A far broader spread of trade associated skills as well, you dont have to be a senior rank to be put on management courses in civiy street.

We might be ex-squaddies but were not civilians.....you can never train a civilian to do the armys jobs properly.
 
#14
Notebooks at the ready.

170 (Infra Spt) gp RE has a strong TA el that does this (without the lawyers). Formerly CVHQ RE.

They have been involved in every significant deployment since at least 1995 and possibly before that, together with countless other non-operational real time engineering tasks.

With the exception of supporting staff, all of the TA el use their civ skills in their TA role. For many of these roles, the regular army has no equivalent and would be forced to seek out, protect and then pay civ contractors/consultants to undertake the work, with the attendant security risks and contractual '£££complications£££' inherent in using external parties. The external parties would be exactly the same type of people (and in some cases ARE the same people) employed by 170.

Out
 
#16
Sounds a good idea but KBR are making a fortune out there building things for the British army, what would be the point in the army building things for the Afghans when we can't do it for ourselves?
 
#17
stevers said:
Notebooks at the ready.
Rebuilding does not equal putting up buildings....

msr
 
#19
The trouble with viewing CIMIC through an RE perspective is that you just end up building stuff...
 
#20
msr said:
The trouble with viewing CIMIC through an RE perspective is that you just end up building stuff...
Thats why our new "Corps" can contain not only engineers, but all the other professions represented within parts of the TA - businessmen, doctors, academics, linguists, teachers, bankers, health workers, civil servants - even a few MPs.....

With the advantage of a common management structure (military) you could deliver - say - a mentoring structure covering almost every aspect of the administration of a small country. Your civilian military structure provides on the one hand an interface to civvie organisations, and on the other seamless integration with military and security formations.
 

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