Tories Now Know that Prison doesnt Work

#1
Ken Clarke is now of the opinion that prison doesn't work and will cut the numbers of inmates. He will also be making efforts to reduce recidivism outside of prison.

Whilst this conversion on the road to the Scrubs is most welcome, did all you conservative supporters really vote for this?
 
#2
he is right. Prison does not work. bring back hanging!
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
I rather suspect that this is a "money" rather than an "ideology" thing.
 
#4
We should just build a big f*ck off wall around a city and dump all our dregs into it and let them get on with it like in 'Escape From New York' .

Hang on a minute, we've done that already - Liverpool ! :D Sadly the one built by the Romans didn't last.

D_B
 
#5
dogs_bollox said:
We should just build a big f*ck off wall around a city and dump all our dregs into it and let them get on with it like in 'Escape From New York' .

Hang on a minute, we've done that already - Liverpool ! :D Sadly the one built by the Romans didn't last.

D_B
Yeah, the dark age Scallies nicked the bricks!
 
#6
Whet said:
did all you conservative supporters really vote for this?
I voted for the, and welcome it. Prison has become too comfortable, it's a waste of money sending all but the most violent and uncontrollable offenders locked away.

As we're not allowed to hang or whip them any more, perhaps having them bored half to death by Recidivism Counsellors and Community Engagement Outreach Workers will be enough to deter them.

I'd sooner crims be caught for more offences and get a month inside for each one, then get away with 99 and then do 9 months for one.
 
#7
Ken Clarke hasn't said that he is of the opinion that prison doesn't work, but he did wonder why there are so many more people in prison than when he was last a minister. So, Whet, what would you do with murderers and rapists, hang them? Give them community service? Don't tell me, we should simply re educate them and they will never commit crime again. So what works on your planet?
 
#8
eodmatt said:
Ken Clarke hasn't said that he is of the opinion that prison doesn't work, but he did wonder why there are so many more people in prison than when he was last a minister. So, Whet, what would you do with murderers and rapists, hang them? Give them community service? Don't tell me, we should simply re educate them and they will never commit crime again. So what works on your planet?
Try this avenue of approach, it'll yield more results:

"Oh hello brick wall, answer me this question..."
 
#9
eodmatt said:
Ken Clarke hasn't said that he is of the opinion that prison doesn't work, but he did wonder why there are so many more people in prison than when he was last a minister. So, Whet, what would you do with murderers and rapists, hang them? Give them community service? Don't tell me, we should simply re educate them and they will never commit crime again. So what works on your planet?
What is the rate of murderers murdering again once released?

The vast majority of prisoners serve sort term sentences, most prisoners did not do well when in education. The former can be aleviated by sorting out the latter.
 
#10
sounds a very Tory thing as it all down to privatisation. Those who would have served a sentance are passed over to a new agency who will be paid on results of them not reoffending inturn effectively creating a group 4 day offenders society. If they can tie that in with getting them back to work it saves money for the prison,the Dept of welfare (or whatever it's called) and the probation service.

On the other hand it could create gang masters and low paid workers forcing more eastern europeans home. Hows that for a midweek half baked conspiracy theory?
 
#11
Jungelism said:
eodmatt said:
Ken Clarke hasn't said that he is of the opinion that prison doesn't work, but he did wonder why there are so many more people in prison than when he was last a minister. So, Whet, what would you do with murderers and rapists, hang them? Give them community service? Don't tell me, we should simply re educate them and they will never commit crime again. So what works on your planet?
Try this avenue of approach, it'll yield more results:

"Oh hello brick wall, answer me this question..."
Funny then, that Clarke has come round to the Lib Dem way of thinking.
 
#12
Whet said:
The vast majority of prisoners serve sort term sentences, most prisoners did not do well when in education. The former can be aleviated by sorting out the latter.
Have you any evidence for that? And don't just point to the low exam results for the prison population, all that means is they were too lazy to get either an education or an honest living.

Have you quit the Liberal Democrat party yet?
 
#13
Pigshyt_Freeman said:
Whet said:
The vast majority of prisoners serve sort term sentences, most prisoners did not do well when in education. The former can be aleviated by sorting out the latter.
Have you any evidence for that? And don't just point to the low exam results for the prison population, all that means is they were too lazy to get either an education or an honest living.

Have you quit the Liberal Democrat party yet?

Yes
 
#14
Whet what he is going to say is

"Fewer criminals will be jailed and more offenders will get community sentences because prison doesn’t work in many cases"

Also "I am not at direct odds with my leader. You do need short sentences for the kind of nuisance criminal who keeps being a recidivist,"

And “It is virtually impossible to do anything productive with offenders on short sentences,” he will say. “And many of them end up losing their jobs, their homes and their families during their short term inside.”

Which makes sense. Why have a person that has been sentenced for a trivial offence having a place in prison when he can still be earning and paying his way, unlike some, and giving something back in taxes etc.
 
#16
Prison does give inmates a chance to reflect and to do some meaningful work: for some of them, for the first time in their lives.

That having been said, I think locking people up for road-traffic offences or for something else where they become an even larger burden on the state than they were already is absurd.
 
#18
Its all about the money in that the government has fcuk all and so can't afford the new prisons its nothing to do with policies as the Conservatives are in no way strong enough to have a backbench revolt this early into the government. The human rights gobshite that hinders making junkies go cold turkey probably doesn't help with cutting down on reoffending.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
Much of this debate ignores the fact the magistrates and judges are under great pressure - indeed under formal guidelines which if exceeded would be grist to an appeal - to avoid dishing our prison sentences if at all possible. It rather follows that only the very worst offenders can actually be jugged. It follows from that, that as between those sentenced to prison and those given community sentences, the former are more likely to re-offend as they are worse people in the first place. Indeed they include people for whom community sentencing has already been tried and failed, at whatever cost to the victim of the later offence. If it's a money thing we should be looking at cuttting the cost of running prisons. This might make for a more stark regime and one criminals would feel under some incentive to avoid.
 
#20
seaweed said:
Much of this debate ignores the fact the magistrates and judges are under great pressure - indeed under formal guidelines which if exceeded would be grist to an appeal - to avoid dishing our prison sentences if at all possible. It rather follows that only the very worst offenders can actually be jugged. It follows from that, that as between those sentenced to prison and those given community sentences, the former are more likely to re-offend as they are worse people in the first place. Indeed they include people for whom community sentencing has already been tried and failed, at whatever cost to the victim of the later offence. If it's a money thing we should be looking at cuttting the cost of running prisons. This might make for a more stark regime and one criminals would feel under some incentive to avoid.
But if this government chose it could change those guidlines and go back to the short sharp shock of the eighties. It would seem that they are not in fact going to do so.
 

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