'Topple the Racists' - a sustained attack on British History

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
[QUNextfellOTE="stacker1, post: 10122047, member: 29431"]Now now Bugsy, Im just trying to help you, those pair are genuinely trying to usurp you, what are you going to do about it?
I suggest your 9/11 theories, they were brilliant. Robme wont know whats hit him[/QUOTE]
Whatever you do to discredit me, spackerinsi, you'll still always be known as the only ARRSEr who's managed to strike up an argument with himself - and lose! No-one can take that away from you,! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

MsG
 
Excuse me, "some" were sold by indigenous powers but THE VAST MAJORITY WERE CAPTURED AND KIDNAPPED by european "discoverers".
"In opening the nature of the slave trade, I need only observe, that it is
found by experience to be just as every man, who uses his reason, would
infallibly conclude it to be. For my own part, so clearly am I convinced of the
mischief’s inseparable from it, that I should hardly want and farther evidence
than my own mind would furnish, by the most simple deductions. Facts
however, are now laid before the House. A report has been made by his
majesty’s privy council, which, I trust, every gentleman has read, and which
ascertains the slave trade to be just such in practice as we know, from theory,
it must be. What should we suppose must naturally be the consequence of our
carrying on a slave trade with Africa? With a country was in its extent, not
utterly barbarous, but civilized in a very small degree? Does anyone suppose a
slave trade would help their civilization? Is it not plain, that she must suffer
from it? That civilization must be checked; that her barbarous manners must be
made more barbarous; and that the happiness of her millions of inhabitants
must be prejudiced with her intercourse with Britain? Does not everyone see
that a slave trade, carried on around her coasts, must carry violence and
desolation to her very centre? That in a continent just emerging from
barbarism, if a trade in men is established, if her men are all converted into
goods and become commodities that can be bartered, it follows, they must be
subject to ravage just as goods are; and this too, at a period of civilization,
when there is no protecting legislature to defined their only sort of property,
in the same manner as the rights of property are maintained by the legislature
of every civilized country. We see then, in the nature of things, how easily our
practices of Africa are to be accounted for. Her kings are never compelled to
wear, that we can hear of, by public principles, by national glory, still less by
the love of their people. In Europe it is the extension of commerce, the
maintenance of national honour, or some great public object, that is ever the
motive to war with every monarch; but, in Africa, it is the personal avarice and
sensuality, of their kings: these two vices of avarice and sensuality, the most
powerful and predominant in natures this corrupt) we tempt, we stimulate in
all these African princes, and we depend upon these vices for the very
maintenance of the slave trade. Does the king of Barbess in want brandy? He
has only to send his troops in the night time, to burn and desolate a village; the
captives will serve as commodities, that may be bartered with the British
trader. What a striking view of the wretched state of Africa does the tragedy of
Calabar furnish! Two towns, formerly hostile, has settled their differences, and
by intermarriage among their chiefs, had each pledged themselves to peace;
but the trade in slave was prejudiced by such pacifications, and it became,
therefore, the policy of our traders to renew the hostilities. This their policy,
was soon put in practice, and the scene of carnage which followed was such,
that it is better, perhaps, to refer gentlemen to the privy council’s report, that
to agitate their minds by dwelling on it.
The slave trade, in its very nature, is the source of such kind of
tragedies; nor has there been a single person, almost, before the privy council,
who does not add something by his testimony to the mass of evidence upon this
point. Some indeed, of these gentlemen, and particularly the delegates from
Liverpool, have endeavoured to reason down this plain principle; some have
palliated it; but there is not one, I believe, who does not more or less admit it.
Some, nay most, I believe, have admitted the slave trade to be the chief cause
of wars in Africa. Mr. Penny, a Liverpool delegate, has called it the concurrent
cause; some confess it to be sometimes to cause, but argue that it cannot
often be so. Here I must make one observations, which I hope may be done
without any offence to any one, and which I do, once for all though it applies
equally to many other evidences upon this subject. l mean to lay it down as my
principal, that evidences, and especially interested evidences, are not to be
judges of the argument. In matters of fact, of which they speak, I admit their
competency; I mean not to suspect their credibility with respect to any thing
they see of hear, or themselves personally know; but, in reasoning about the
causes and effect, I hold them to be totally incompetent. So far, therefore,
from submitting to their conclusions in this respect I utterly discard them. I
take their premises readily and fairly; but upon these premises, I must judge
for myself: and the House, I trust, nay, I perfectly well know, will; in like
manner judge for itself. Confident assertions therefore, not of facts, but of
supposed consequences of facts, however pressed by the Liverpool delegates,
or any other interested persons, go for nothing in my estimation: and it is
necessary that parliament should proceed upon this principle, as well in this as
every other public question in which interested evidences must be examined.
Thus the African committee have reported that very few enormities, in their
opinion, can be practice din Africa; because in forty years only two complaints
have been made to them, I admit the fact to the undoubtedly; but, I trust
gentlemen will judge for themselves, whether parliament is to rest satisfied
that there are no abuses in Africa, in spite of all the positive proofs of so many
witnesses on the spot to the contrary. Whether, for instance, Mr. Wardstrom’s
evidence, Dr, Spaarman’s, Captain Hill’s are to go for nothing, any of whom
either saw the battles, were told by the kings themselves, that it was for the
sake of slaves they went to battle, or conversed with a variety of prisoners
taken by these means. In truth an inquiry from the African committee whether
any foul play prevails in Africa, is somewhat like an application to the Customhouse
officers to know whether any smuggling is going on; the officer may tell
you that very few seizures are made and very few frauds come to his
knowledge; but does it follow that parliament must agree to all the reasoning
of the officer? and though smuggling be ever so notorious through the land,
must agree there is not smuggling, because the officer reports that he makes
very few seizures and seldom hears of it? I will not believe, therefore, the mere
opinions of African traders, concerning the nature and consequences of the
slave trade. It is a trade in its principle most inevitable calculated to spread
disunion among the African princes, to sow the seeds of every mischief, to
inspire enmity, to destroy humanity; and it is found in practice, by the most
abundant testimony to have has the effect in Africa of carrying misery,
devastation and ruin wherever its baneful influence has extended."

William Wilbeforce House of Commons 12th May 1789

You really are an ignorant Dyslecic Danisk King aren't you...

"Roots" was a work of fiction not a documentary.
 
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I'm always a bit concerned when I see movements reducing complex situations to three word slogans.

One started with "Kraft durch Freude" and finished with "Arbeit macht frei."

Other examples are available.
Army Catering Corps.
The horrors that produced!
 
[QUNextfellOTE="stacker1, post: 10122047, member: 29431"]Now now Bugsy, Im just trying to help you, those pair are genuinely trying to usurp you, what are you going to do about it?
I suggest your 9/11 theories, they were brilliant. Robme wont know whats hit him
Whatever you do to discredit me, spackerinsi, you'll still always be known as the only ARRSEr who's managed to strike up an argument with himself - and lose! No-one can take that away from you,! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

MsG
[/QUOTE]
What is it that you have against Stacker Bugsy? What has he ever done to you?
 
Bugsy have you seen the Sportmans Treble thread? A signaller started to take your place before Robme came along and produced some grade A batshit crazy posts. You might want to get over there and show them who is boss.
FFS I have just looked at some of those posts. Robme is excelling himself since he came off his ban. Awarded an OBE, MM and MID. And all his service and decorations proved by documentation from the MOD. Oh and his degree as well. I can see why he calls everyone LMFers.
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Whatever you do to discredit me, spackerinsi, you'll still always be known as the only ARRSEr who's managed to strike up an argument with himself - and lose! No-one can take that away from you,! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

MsG
What is it that you have against Stacker Bugsy? What has he ever done to you?[/QUOTE]
You're actually asking that the wrong way round. It's the spackerman who's got something against me. He pursues me across the ARRSE boards and has done so obsessively and psychotically for over 13 years now. What's his beef? No idea. I think he just wanted someone of whom he could claim is "worse" than he is. After all, he'll be forever known as the only ARRSEr who can get into an argument with himself and lose. That must really hurt his very fragile ego.

MsG
 
I wonder if you'd respond in kind supplying me with your sources that detail exactly how was the majority of people kidnapping in Africa was not done by a European system, that yes, employed some locals, but was essentially a foreign supply-demand. Please?
Well theres a shifted Goal post

Europeans kidnapped all the slaves

No Europeans Bought slaves off the natives

Becomes The slaves were kidnapped for the Europeans and then an attack on the denial of this - But nobody denied the slaves were taken for Europeans so you can shove that strawman up your arse.

As Slaves were being traded to the Arabs / north Africans Before Europeans became involved - I would dispute it was a European system - but rather the Europeans massively increased demand.

As for the Majority being for Europeans - I suspect thats plausible for the peak of the Atlantic slave trade 1730- 1820 but as the other trades both preceded and continued after Im somewhat doubtful of the claim most slaves were taken for Europeans.

As for Portugal being No 1 - I would have thought that went to romans - certainly in terms of % of global population
 
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Excuse me, "some" were sold by indigenous powers but THE VAST MAJORITY WERE CAPTURED AND KIDNAPPED by european "discoverers".
Bollocks.

"With some early exceptions, Europeans were not able to independently enter the West and Central African interior to capture Africans and force them onto ships to the Americas. Instead, European traders generally relied on a network of African rulers and traders to capture and bring enslaved Africans from various coastal and interior regions to slave castles on the West and Central African coast. Many of these traders acquired captives as a result of military and political conflict, but some also pursued slave trading for profit."

African Participation and Resistance to the Trade · African Passages, Lowcountry Adaptations · Lowcountry Digital History Initiative
 

RBMK

Old-Salt
The Clarence Smith might be on a different one, he writes considerably about the Portuguese Colonization, which in turn supplied many slaves to other European countries. I'll double check this is the right one for you very fine gentlemen.
I smell a stale sock
 
It's funny the BS didn't require sources but the rebuttal does...
Concerning my sources, I'm happy providing them, I've studied this in detail in Portugal, the number 1 people kidnapper in the world, ever. I'll limit it to things you'll be able to find originals in English or translated into English.
Have you even heard of the Arab white slave trade?

Yet for some reason this is not a constantly brought up subject of why we are ‘victims of institutionalised racism’. or why ‘whites' have a massive illiteracy problem, absent fathers or even why we are underrepresented in violent crime or in western jails???

Strange that.
 

needlewaver

War Hero
I once had a chief inspector tell me that we could not use the ic codes as descriptors on nominal records on the HOLMES2 computer system, Obviously I treated his order with the respect it deserved.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Considering HOLMES is supposed to be the absolute reference point for investigation data, I'd love to have seen his justification.
 
You're actually asking that the wrong way round. It's the spackerman who's got something against me. He pursues me across the ARRSE boards and has done so obsessively and psychotically for over 13 years now. What's his beef? No idea. I think he just wanted someone of whom he could claim is "worse" than he is. After all, he'll be forever known as the only ARRSEr who can get into an argument with himself and lose. That must really hurt his very fragile ego.

MsG
Bugsy, what have I said to upset you so much?
I'm actually want you to cyber fight Robme & A signaller. You're the Daddy (Of fibs), dont let these whippersnappers get the best of you.
 
Are you seriously saying because Europeans gave guns, ordered or requested ordered capture, but in some cases didn't physically do the job, it was all the africans doing it?? So if a mob boss orders shooting he's innocent? Goodness me...



This is changing the goal post: suddenly we're discussing percentage of populations 20 centuries ago? I'm sure Portuguese traffic was more than 2 to 5 million.

In any case, from the beginning I said that africans were involved. I'm saying the structure and mass people trafficking, that's European. Slavery existed well before Europe's 15th century. Who's arguing that?
When the Slave Traders Were African

The slave dealers were African. Deal with it.

 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Amazing. You actually thought that. And then you typed it.

I'll take the advice not to argue with you.
People from a distance can't tell who is who.
@Resasi posted a fairly balanced piece, including this and the two paragraphs which follow it:
While the Barbary slave trade is typically portrayed as Muslim corsairs capturing white Christian victims, this is far too simplistic. In reality, the corsairs were not concerned with the race or religious orientation of those they captured. Slaves in Barbary could be black, brown or white, Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Jewish or Muslim. And the corsairs were not only Muslim; English privateers and Dutch captains also exploited the changing loyalties of an era in which friends could become enemies and enemies friends with the stroke of a pen.
Sorry that it doesn't fit your simplistic and inaccurate narrative. Coastal black tribes' practice of capturing from the hinterland and selling on to whomever - Arab, white, whomever - is well-documented.

It's well-documented because it's the truth.
 

Mattb

LE
Are you seriously saying because Europeans gave guns, ordered or requested ordered capture, but in some cases didn't physically do the job, it was all the africans doing it?? So if a mob boss orders shooting he's innocent? Goodness me...
Your analogy makes the point anyway.

That the mob boss ordered the hit does not absolve the hitman of guilt, it means that they're both part of a criminal conspiracy.
 
@Resasi posted a fairly balanced piece, including this and the two paragraphs which follow it:

Sorry that it doesn't fit your simplistic and inaccurate narrative. Coastal black tribes' practice of capturing from the hinterland and selling on to whomever - Arab, white, whomever - is well-documented.

It's well-documented because it's the truth.
He's making me hungry...

 
That is funny.
I know the African part in capturing and trafficking Africans. So?

This thread is frequented amongst others, by very fine, but quickly irritable gentlemen, naturally concerned with the wellbeing of their own historical future.
See all those cultural changes that happened to this society that you really dislike. Not the criminal stuff, just the stuff that's legal but you really hate.. Yeah, they're not going anywhere. In fact more of it is coming.
You deal with that.
It was nice of you to throw in the odd word of English.
 

Truxx

LE
As an aside all the statues can breath a sigh of relief this weekend as the fire of the knee takers is being directed at David Starkey.

Who I have always considered to be a bigoted bore so no loss there.
 

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