Top Terrier resigns

ugly

LE
Moderator
#4
Poor bloke, whats he going to do for cash now? I meann he will have to flog all those CVRW he allegedly bought for his regiment!
 
#5
Maybe you should be worried about this. The Mail bit about the name is a smokescreen. What its really about is he has lost his argument with Army Command over professionalising the reserves. It confirms what is almost common knowledge anyway - that Reserves 2020 isn't being taken seriously by the Regular Army. He pissed off a lot of senior officers arguing for proper support for the 2020 plan; looks like he's finally admitted defeat. The irony is that A2020 won't work without the reserves.

Most of the TA will suffer as a result. Though some bits will do rather well out of it.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#6
True, its is sad when an independantly wealthy person who decides that his nations defence is worthy of his patronage is ignored in this way. Its not as if he is a know nothing numpty jumped up stab is he. I seem to recall he has filled virtually every post from Trooper to Brigadier in the current set up.
There is a need for 2020 to work and perhaps if the politicians had some nads they would ensure it works even if certain senior officers get retired for obstructing this.
I have seen similar situations where 2 companies have had to sack senior managers for resisting the changes that ultimately saved the company and the jobs of those employees. The company was bought in one case, staff tuped over and it has grown. In the other case it stayed independant but thrived.
perhaps its time for those market forces to be applied?
 
#8
General 'Eyebrows' falling on his sword is a good thing. He massively over-estimated the professionalism of the TA to the rest of the Army. I witnessed on several occasions him stating that the TA were the ultimate volunteer and were better that the regular. Apparently he got slapped down recently... Good riddance I say, now cull all the other wasters and drag the TA forward
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#9
Ugly - So are you saying this is a good thing or a bad thing ?
I think my second post should make it clear that if the senior Terrier leaves because the grown ups wont support the necessary moves to make the future shape of the army as dictated by our political employers work then it can only be a bad thing! Or perhaps his leaving will force change and then it could be a good thing, if so would he be asked to reconsider?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#10
General 'Eyebrows' falling on his sword is a good thing. He massively over-estimated the professionalism of the TA to the rest of the Army. I witnessed on several occasions him stating that the TA were the ultimate volunteer and were better that the regular. Apparently he got slapped down recently... Good riddance I say, now cull all the other wasters and drag the TA forward
great, apply it across the board!
 
#11
I briefed him a few times.

He was at best confused and at worst delusional.
 
#12
I witnessed on several occasions him stating that the TA were the ultimate volunteer and were better that the regular.
I would say that TA blokes could be better than regulars... but then I don't know what 'scale of reference' you're using, nor do you know which I am.

TA blokes can NEVER compete with a Regular in terms of pure trade, ie a 3 Year Infantry soldier in the Regs will be leaps and bounds ahead of his peer in the TA.

But let's look at them.

Reg - prob 21/22 years of age, 1 maybe 2 tours as a tom, still goes home to mum on leave.

TA - Age 21 - 46 years of age, Possible mil experience in a different expertise, holds down a job on the outside that is likely to be quite different to their TA role, may have a family, own household, etc
I know the TA Plt that were handling the FP role a while back were quite capable. Capt (TA) in charge, CSgt Plt Sgt and 4 sections of 8, a Cpl was about 40 odd and a granddad. But by fcuk could were these guys great. the skills they had in the plt were legion. And they were extremly well received by the locals.

I'd say he was slapped down (and he probably gave an easy target) for upsetting reg sensibilities. Regs don't want to lose PIDs to the TA.

I'd say it's time to clear out the dross in the Regs too, and yolk the TA and Regs to the burden of National defence (and misc tasks).
 
#13
I think my second post should make it clear that if the senior Terrier leaves because the grown ups wont support the necessary moves to make the future shape of the army as dictated by our political employers work then it can only be a bad thing! Or perhaps his leaving will force change and then it could be a good thing, if so would he be asked to reconsider?
What do you think is going to happen now that the 'grown ups' (a generous description) have decided that they are not going to do what is necessary ? Will be interesting to see who replaces Grosvenor. Maybe if he was as delusional as Bed In suggests his departure will be a good thing. But maybe not for most of the TA.
 
#14
I would say that TA blokes could be better than regulars... but then I don't know what 'scale of reference' you're using, nor do you know which I am.

Across the board, unless there is a specific niche trade needed.

TA blokes can NEVER compete with a Regular in terms of pure trade, ie a 3 Year Infantry soldier in the Regs will be leaps and bounds ahead of his peer in the TA.

But let's look at them.

Reg - prob 21/22 years of age, 1 maybe 2 tours as a tom, still goes home to mum on leave.

TA - Age 21 - 46 years of age, Possible mil experience in a different expertise, holds down a job on the outside that is likely to be quite different to their TA role, may have a family, own household, etc
I know the TA Plt that were handling the FP role a while back were quite capable. Capt (TA) in charge, CSgt Plt Sgt and 4 sections of 8, a Cpl was about 40 odd and a granddad. But by fcuk could were these guys great. the skills they had in the plt were legion. And they were extremly well received by the locals.

Yes I agree, the people who do make it to theatre are the very best of the TA. However they are the apex of a a very fat triangle of effort behind them. These are a small percentage of the TA overall


I'd say he was slapped down (and he probably gave an easy target) for upsetting reg sensibilities. Regs don't want to lose PIDs to the TA.

He was well out of his depth and I stand by my comment.

I'd say it's time to clear out the dross in the Regs too, and yolk the TA and Regs to the burden of National defence (and misc tasks).
Totally agree, PAP 10 needs to be ruthlessly employed throughout. Hopefully come Dec most TA units will be tied to a local Reg regiment and will come under their training cycle. See what happens but this will be a wake up call for all bounty hunters and drinking club veterans
 
#15
I briefed him a few times.

He was at best confused and at worst delusional.
I hold a similar view having had the task of dealing with him on a couple of occasions. A decent bloke in a "lets go on the piss etc" sort of way; maybe he was hiding a razor sharp intellect, if he was he did it well.

I can't be arrsed to research the "Tpr to Maj Gen" soundbite but can only guess its a tad disingenuous?
 
#16
I hold a similar view having had the task of dealing with him on a couple of occasions. A decent bloke in a "lets go on the piss etc" sort of way; maybe he was hiding a razor sharp intellect, if he was he did it well.

I can't be arrsed to research the "Tpr to Maj Gen" soundbite but can only guess its a tad disingenuous?
Like most TA officers he did a short time in the ranks before commissioning. However the main reason he ended up in the TA in the first place was failing RCB. In those days TA officers did not of course do RCB but regionally run borads where owning half the county would not have done him any harm.

That said in my dealings with him he seemed a thoroughly decent bloke and well up with the intellectual standards of most of his regular equivalents. As DG says his replacement is will be interesting - the name that I've heard is no cause for optimism.
 
#17
I hold a similar view having had the task of dealing with him on a couple of occasions. A decent bloke in a "lets go on the piss etc" sort of way; maybe he was hiding a razor sharp intellect, if he was he did it well.

I can't be arrsed to research the "Tpr to Maj Gen" soundbite but can only guess its a tad disingenuous?
Wiki, wiki, wiki
After leaving Harrow with a single O-level, then Earl Grosvenor, he joined the Territorial Army in 1970 as a Trooper.

In 1973 he entered Sandhurst and subsequently commanded the North Irish Horse, The Cheshire Yeomanry Squadron, founded by his ancestors, and The Queen's Own Yeomanry. He was also appointed the Honorary Colonel of several Regiments, including the 7th Regt. Army Air Corps, the Royal Mercian and Lancastrian Yeomanry, the Queen's Own Yeomanry, Northumbria Universities Officer Training Corps, Colonel in Chief of the Canadian Royal Westminster Regiment, the North Irish Horse and Colonel Commandant Yeomanry.
I don't reckon he got the Cpl - WO1 ranks in during his 3 years as an OR.
 
#18
Totally agree, PAP 10 needs to be ruthlessly employed throughout. Hopefully come Dec most TA units will be tied to a local Reg regiment and will come under their training cycle. See what happens but this will be a wake up call for all bounty hunters and drinking club veterans
Do we even have those any more ? It varies between units of course, but personally I'd think carefully about turning a badly undermanned TA into an even more badly undermanned TA during an expansion programme. I've not seen any units recently where you could slice chunks away and not notice it.

I also doubt that you'll see any proper training with the Regs any time soon. They won't work weekends and if they did the TA can't turn up at the last minute for some weekend hastily rammed into the schedule.

Then there are the practical problems when it comes to applying "One Army" rules, the chronic lack of Army medical support to the TA means you can't even get the assessments done, it's not the same as getting an agency doc to do PULHEEMS. But I digress.

Still, the divestment of "loggy shite" to the TA means the Regs are going exactly nowhere without the TA. I also have the nagging feeling in the back of my mind that the Army is being handed a long piece of rope and left to see what happens; another failure to perform may well result in more cuts and reorganisation.
 
#19
As DG says his replacement is will be interesting - the name that I've heard is no cause for optimism.
Without naming names.....no cause for optimism from whose perspective ? From the Regular Army point of view who are keen that the TA takes at least equal pain from A2020 and won't fancy somebody competent and on their game in that post ? Or from the perspective of the TA who were hoping that they might get the money that will allow them to up their game - something an enthusiastic if clueless amateur won't have a snowball's chance in hell of pushing through Andover. (Enthusiastic but clueless amateur in charge of the TA ? Hardly appropriate....... ;-) ! )
 

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