"Top Brass to be culled"

#1
#3
You heard it here first - Para Generals to be culled outright, leading to a mass drop in morale for all our brave chaps.....
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#4
Hmm, we got rid of 5* rank, in an amazing reaction to the reality of the last fifty century, around 20 years ago. A 4* is an Army-level Commander. We haven't got a Corps-level force, let alone an Army, even if we glued both Services together, and added the AA, Costguards, RNLI and the RAF. Given the realities, a 3* as CINCFLEET, UKLF, etc., seems rather sensible. It will (should....) then mean a corresponding reduction in Star count below that. This should mean fewer admin-type Staff Officers/PAs, Drivers etc, as we all know that a 1* and above needs a good few bodies to keep him in the official manner :)

Anyway, I heard different stuff coming out from the DRU - but it's not going on here, that's for sure!
 
#5
Actually, the first iteration of the Defence Reform Unit has been leaked - CINCs to be 3*, more civilian control over Senior Appointments, etc etc.

Could be an interesting time to have a star on your shoulder....

Armed forces face radical changes under Lord Levene plans | UK news | The Guardian
I do not advocate US Marines, but the comparison of the number of brass has to be made. Simply we can not afford the gold - and through different articles with regard to leadership in Basra etc etc it is tarnished. Cull the feckers, allow the government money to pay for enlisted personnel.

Tonight in the Czech Republic a similar debate is now going on about the effectiveness of the Czech armed forces and their capability. The Guardian makes the point that brave Brit chaps are fighting in Libya and Af. However, there are probably a shit load who are doing nothing more that ticking the boxes that ensure promotion and see thread http://www.arrse.co.uk/current-affa...-us-forces-remuneration-healthcare-costs.html there is a similar experience in America where it can not be afforded anymore.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
we should send them out there into the big bad world to learn just what kind of wars we are fighting - a few high level advisors in libya and afghanistan might learn enough to actually influence a proper force structure.

and its time the raf top brass wound up in the FOBs so they understand what the term AIR SUPPORT actually means!!!!
 
#7
we should send them out there into the big bad world to learn just what kind of wars we are fighting - a few high level advisors in libya and afghanistan might learn enough to actually influence a proper force structure.

and its time the raf top brass wound up in the FOBs so they under what the term AIR SUPPORT actually means!!!!
Question. How much brass do we need? Seasoned SNCOs and junior ish officers know. The past is blocking the future, corrupting the future and then taking on board pliant companions - think honours...

Cull them

K
 
#9
We do seem to be rather over-generalled, the reduction in 1* and above numbers since 1989 hasn't been proportional to the shrinkage in rank and file, has it? We probably have rather more generals, air commodore wing squadron thingies and admirals than we need, hence, rather a lot of non-jobs for same. Of course, if the pyramid shrinks dramatically at the top end, that makes a military career rather less attractive for lifers - we already lose a huge number of Majors at the 16-year point, I suspect we'd lose even more at an earlier point, as soon as it became apparent that they probably weren't going to make the cut at OF-4. Paradoxically, it will probably continue to be the smart ones getting out, so we'll end up with fewer, but dumber, senior officers.

Heretically, I often find myself wondering whether we actually have too many commissioned officers, the Germans seem to do pretty well with proportionately fewer. Fewer officers might mean smaller, more agile headquarters, more time spent at Regimental duty for those who want to be around soldiers, my God, it might even lead us to a professional General Staff.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
well I question the need for generals full stop! after all germany brought the world practically to its knees under the command of a corporal who hadnt even done junior brecon. they'd have won with an ex sargeant in command, especially the way they bred their ncos. napoleon promoted himself up the ranks, washington too

most revolutions were by colonels and below so why do we need generals? they are expensive, demand posh cars and helicopters. without them the MOD can be run by handfull of colonels issued with oyster cards and some pretty secretaries to distract them from planning wars :)

we may as well be run from the pentagon nowadays anyway, we might even get some decent kit!
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
I read somewhere the german orbat from ww1 and 2 most batallions only had a dozen officers with companies often being run by ncos

and the entire US marine corps makes do with only 70 senior ranks or something like that. there was an article about it a while back probably by Lewis Page
 
#12
Just what would the Current UK Army be in say WW II strength, An Army Group, Army, Corps, or even a Division ?

john
Last I heard the Prince of Darkness was on about 44 Battalions strong.
 
#13
Heretically, I often find myself wondering whether we actually have too many commissioned officers, the Germans seem to do pretty well with proportionately fewer. Fewer officers might mean smaller, more agile headquarters, more time spent at Regimental duty for those who want to be around soldiers, my God, it might even lead us to a professional General Staff.
I have long argued that we should slash officer recruitment and bring back WO3s to replace the missing subies.

Two Pl in each Rifle Coy commanded by WO3, and one by 2Lt.
Pl in SP Coy commanded by 1Lt.
Rifle Coy commanded by a Capt with the existing CSM as the 2IC.
Two Maj per Bn, a OC HQ/COS and a 2IC/TM.
 
#14
I have long argued that we should slash officer recruitment and bring back WO3s to replace the missing subies.

Two Pl in each Rifle Coy commanded by WO3, and one by 2Lt.
Pl in SP Coy commanded by 1Lt.
Rifle Coy commanded by a Capt with the existing CSM as the 2IC.
Two Maj per Bn, a OC HQ/COS and a 2IC/TM.
That was pretty much the way it worked out anyways when I was in. That, and 19 man platoons carrying all the weapons and kit meant for a full platoon.
 
#15
#16
According to this article the Army has 14,370 trained Officers, and 83,920 other ranks. (If my calculations are correct) This means One officer for every 5.83 Soldiers!
 
#17
Actually, the first iteration of the Defence Reform Unit has been leaked - CINCs to be 3*, more civilian control over Senior Appointments, etc etc.
Be afraid, very afraid. Politicians get their say through the Defence Council. UK armed forces are already far too micro-managed by politicians and civil servants (the endless haggling about troop numbers on ops is a clear indicator of this).

Are there going to be similar wholesale grade reductions in the civil service? Oh just the armed forces is it, that'll be a benefit when the MoD is entirely run by civil servants who've recently been promoted from the Dept of Tossers or something and are now giving military advice to ministers.
 
#18
From the buzzes I've heard, it's about reducing the role the MoD has as an operational HQ (and thus strengthening PJHQ and the 3 FLCs) and returning a modicum of strategy to the general process.

Lets be honest, it's not like the MoD is a shiny example of "how to do something".
 

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