Too much tampering with life?

#1
We have IVF so you can have babies that you really, really want... but then you can terminate the ones you feel are 'surplus'.

Do we have too much tampering now?

Struggle to concieve? Well, lose weight, stop drinking, etc, still not working out? Adopt.

And is abortion of embryos not a bit of an obscenity?

Abortions to reduce multiple births on the rise - Telegraph
 
L

lumpy2

Guest
#2
It's all about "rights". "My right to have a baby" "My right to abort a baby". This sort of thing really boils my piss. There's no such thing as the "right" to have a baby. What about the rights of the child in question? Or is it just another commodity?
 
#3
If in doubt get it out!! At the end of the day its the parents personal choice, its a pity school girl/poor people who cant afford to look after their spawn properly don't do the necessary!!
 
#4
Struggle to concieve? Well, lose weight, stop drinking, etc,
Not that Closet_Jaffa here is firing blanks (Last time I checked) but I think you may be barking up the wrong tree with the above. I know a fair few lads (Worryingly all serving and ex serving) who can't fill a pram.

If modern technology gives these fellas a chance to have their own families I think its spot on.

Likewise if it allows our peasant class to abort spawning another benefit dependent chav its not a bad thing either.
 
#6
We have IVF so you can have babies that you really, really want... but then you can terminate the ones you feel are 'surplus'.

Do we have too much tampering now?

Struggle to concieve? Well, lose weight, stop drinking, etc, still not working out? Adopt.

And is abortion of embryos not a bit of an obscenity?

Abortions to reduce multiple births on the rise - Telegraph
That's quite a knee jerk reaction to an interesting article, did you bother to read it all the way through, or just scan it and absorb the bits that would cause you the most bile?
 
#7
#8
We have IVF so you can have babies that you really, really want... but then you can terminate the ones you feel are 'surplus'.

Do we have too much tampering now?

Struggle to concieve? Well, lose weight, stop drinking, etc, still not working out? Adopt.

And is abortion of embryos not a bit of an obscenity?

Abortions to reduce multiple births on the rise - Telegraph
My cousin's wife had this done a few years ago. After fertility treatment she had 4 or more fetuses in her womb. This was reduced to two early in the pregnancy. The reasons for this included the viability of a healthy birth, the mother's health and the well being of both the twins and an already born child.

IMO. it is sensible to have a good chance of giving birth to a healthy single baby or twins, than take the risk of trying to bring several fetus to full term.
 
#9
We have IVF so you can have babies that you really, really want... but then you can terminate the ones you feel are 'surplus'.

Do we have too much tampering now?

Struggle to concieve? Well, lose weight, stop drinking, etc, still not working out? Adopt.

And is abortion of embryos not a bit of an obscenity?

Abortions to reduce multiple births on the rise - Telegraph
the fact is an adopted baby is not genetically yours... the article at the end said that women are maximising their chances by having multiples implanted.. due to cost basicly. like gardening "sow 4 seeds in a row, one for the pigeon, one for the crow, one to rot and one to grow"
 
#10
If i recall right there are moves afoot to limit the number of embryos that can be reintroduced post fertilisation to try and reduce the number of multiples conceived.

Background

My brother and his wife tried for 4 years to conceive, eventually admitted defeat and went to GP. Brother had non motile sperm (no tails) so went for IVF using his sperm/her eggs. Implantd 2 embryos, one survived. Went to term, normal delivery, baby girl died at birth as her lungs had stopped developing at 16-20 weeks (bilateral pulmonary hypoplasia)! had a further round of IVF after they'd grieved, which failed. Went away on holiday to recover from the disappointment of failure...came back pregnant with a natural conception! Now 16 weeks and fingers crossed all normal. On testing bro's sperm are now totally normal!!

Having seen the emotional turmoil for them, IVF is not the easy fix it can be seen as, its hell on earth. I can't begin to imagine how you make the decision to terminate some babies and keep others.
 
#11
This is so an emotive issue it'll run for pages and pages . .

Unfortunately, the facts, the myths and the complete bull-shit surrounding IVF and the associated births/outcomes/ethics are so slanted by different political and religeous bias that it makes getting to the facts a whole world harder.

There's so many clinical issues that means someone cannot get conceive that general observations should be avoided so that it doesn't make you look really ignorant. Yep a bit of weight loss here or there, a few less bevvies at the weekend might do it. But what about Polycystic ovary syndrome, a previous ectopic pregnancy or just an unknown reason why a woman can't concieve? These issues make up as many as avoiding another Ginster's at 11 O'clock.

The risks involved with mulitple births are well documented. Low birth-weight, high stillbirth rate, Cerebal Palsy, ad infinitum, so choosing to reduce the number of fetus' could possibly be the choice of reducing the risk of not having a take-home baby? I mean IVF isn't cheap, so why waste all the money on a failed multiple pregnancy when you could have a single successful one?

The HFEA has already reduced the number of good quality eggs to be returned to the mother so as to avoid multiple pregnancies but it's then the clinics job trying to find a good equilibrium between successful muliple outcomes or unsuccessful single ones. IVF clinics pride themselves (and are held against) their success rates and a good successful clinic will attract more work from desparate parents who want a better chnace of a take home baby.

As I've mentioned on ARRSE before, unless you've been through IVF or have had infitility issues, than it's hard to understand the full impact that it has on your life and the rationale behind the decisions that are needed to make. As for non-IVF parents seeking fetus reduction, god only knows, but I assume that it probably fits in somewhere along the lines of the reasons I've given above?

Anyone who falls pregnant via IVF with multiples and then seeks a feotal reduction claiming financial issues, needs a serious smack in the mouth and a session in a counselling room with a couple who's just been told that their nth attempt has failed again.
 
#12
That's quite a knee jerk reaction to an interesting article, did you bother to read it all the way through, or just scan it and absorb the bits that would cause you the most bile?
Nope, i planted the embryo of a thread, to see where it goes... shall we abort?
 
#13
I see nothing wrong with going forth and multiplying with the assistance of modern medical science and I have no qualms about early stage terminations in multiple fetus IVF cases being routine. After all you've already intervened in the natural process to create this condition and the sentient individual with rights is the mother. Women are lucky to live in an age where science offers them safe control of their fertility, it used to kill them off in droves.
 
#14
IVF is not a choice that is taken lightly. It's also not a desired option. However, we are where we are and if a couple are forced to consider it then it's for them to decide the rights or wrongs. It has nothing to do with anyone else, their morals or thoughts. Until you've been in that position and had to face the heartache of not being able to conceive then there's no need to plant an embryo of a thread looking for a bite or two.
 
#15
IVF is not a choice that is taken lightly. It's also not a desired option. However, we are where we are and if a couple are forced to consider it then it's for them to decide the rights or wrongs. It has nothing to do with anyone else, their morals or thoughts. Until you've been in that position and had to face the heartache of not being able to conceive then there's no need to plant an embryo of a thread looking for a bite or two.
If it makes you feel anybetter, my wife and I were trying for five years.

I feel your comments on anyone else's thoughts and morals only comes in to play in a private arrangement with the clinic... ie not NHS involvlement.
 
#16
IVF is not a choice that is taken lightly. It's also not a desired option. However, we are where we are and if a couple are forced to consider it then it's for them to decide the rights or wrongs. It has nothing to do with anyone else, their morals or thoughts. Until you've been in that position and had to face the heartache of not being able to conceive then there's no need to plant an embryo of a thread looking for a bite or two.
Providing the couple are paying for it them self, I agree.*


*Caveat being that an expert medical opinion may be relevant.
 
#17
Having seen the emotional turmoil for them, IVF is not the easy fix it can be seen as, its hell on earth. I can't begin to imagine how you make the decision to terminate some babies and keep others.[/QUOTE]



eeny meeny miney mo ??
 
#18
Having seen the emotional turmoil for them, IVF is not the easy fix it can be seen as, its hell on earth. I can't begin to imagine how you make the decision to terminate some babies and keep others.


eeny meeny miney mo ??[/QUOTE]

**** off back to the Naafi bar, there's a good boy! The toddlers are having a party in there. The grown-ups are talking!
 
#19
Providing the couple are paying for it them self, I agree.*


*Caveat being that an expert medical opinion may be relevant.
So if a couple are having IVF Treatment on the NHS is it any less confidential than if they were a private case? IVF (in 95% of cases) is not a lifestyle choice and if they've engaged the NHS the medical demands have already been met.
 
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