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Too many police on guard?

#1
Has this anti terror thing with armed walt like police on gurad all over the place got out of hand. I mean when exactly was the last time that they were utilised. Are they not over paid, over qualified and under trained? Could they not be better utilised actually back on the beat, doing a job that is far more needed. Security, especially point security and guarding of airports. stations etc could be better placed in the hands of extended service or MPGS?
 
#2
Hardly fair to call them waltish - What exactly are they walting as? All the armed police I've ever worked with have been very professional and well trained in what they do. They're a valuable deterrent and whether they've been utilised or not, it's worth having them there for the one time they are. The job they do is a police job and is best left to the police. Besides, I don't want to get spammed!
 
#3
our lords and masters clearly find it necessary to protect the state and it's fine legislators against a potential attack.

whether they are equalled committed to you I leave to your conscience and judgement.
 
#4
And I'd suggest that their weapon skills are practiced more often, and to a higher standard than most squaddies.
 
#5
Rapier said:
And I'd suggest that their weapon skills are practiced more often, and to a higher standard than most squaddies.
Things must of changed a great deal. Even the RUC weren't that great, apart from their specialist units.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#6
Most squaddies arent Inf on ops so thats quite normal! as for most armed police the ones I personally know seem good to excellent the rest seem almost a bit Dads Army pte Pike with the Thompson.

That said I believe that they have similar rules to the Army on ops in NI, check zero every so many days. I was probably a rarity in my Bn actually being interested in firearms and not REME. I shot a lot before joining and after trg the shooting skills faded till an ops tour came up!
 
#7
Outstanding said:
Has this anti terror thing with armed walt like police on gurad all over the place got out of hand. I mean when exactly was the last time that they were utilised. Are they not over paid, over qualified and under trained? Could they not be better utilised actually back on the beat, doing a job that is far more needed. Security, especially point security and guarding of airports. stations etc could be better placed in the hands of extended service or MPGS?[/quote]

Under trained. Authorised firearms officers have to through a rigorous selection process (and no, i'm not one myself) and three weeks training on not only marksmanship but tactics. They refresh regularly as opposed to soldiers from the support arms.

Back on the Beat. I agree, there should be more back on the beat but unfortunately due to the current threat overtly armed police are needed to guard major institutions. If they were removed and something happened you would probably drip about "where were the walt firearms coppers". Perhaps manning of police stations would be better served by getting schools liason, crime prevention, diversity, etc etc officers back on the streets.

As for the last quote. Whilst a lot of extened service blokes are top drawer i wouldn't want another service guarding public institutions on a regular basis. Not all sitautions the police on duty there deal with will involve firearms and would possible be dealt with by use of existing police powers. Do you whink that the MPGS and extended service blokes should be trained in police law and powers? hmm then they'll be policemen, walt policeman guarding fixed locations, the cycle goes on.
 
#8
Another "outstanding" post, must ask exactly what you thought you were gonna get from starting this thread?
 
#10
The_Seagull said:
Outstanding said:
Has this anti terror thing with armed walt like police on gurad all over the place got out of hand. I mean when exactly was the last time that they were utilised. Are they not over paid, over qualified and under trained? Could they not be better utilised actually back on the beat, doing a job that is far more needed. Security, especially point security and guarding of airports. stations etc could be better placed in the hands of extended service or MPGS?[/quote]

Under trained. Authorised firearms officers have to through a rigorous selection process (and no, i'm not one myself) and three weeks training on not only marksmanship but tactics. They refresh regularly as opposed to soldiers from the support arms.

Back on the Beat. I agree, there should be more back on the beat but unfortunately due to the current threat overtly armed police are needed to guard major institutions. If they were removed and something happened you would probably drip about "where were the walt firearms coppers". Perhaps manning of police stations would be better served by getting schools liason, crime prevention, diversity, etc etc officers back on the streets.

As for the last quote. Whilst a lot of extened service blokes are top drawer i wouldn't want another service guarding public institutions on a regular basis. Not all sitautions the police on duty there deal with will involve firearms and would possible be dealt with by use of existing police powers. Do you whink that the MPGS and extended service blokes should be trained in police law and powers? hmm then they'll be policemen, walt policeman guarding fixed locations, the cycle goes on.
The point you make about police laws and powers is key. Why do you need to have Armed police on guard. Police can be called and can then ustilise their police pwers. But the actually patrolling could be eiother done by ex-forces personnel or by a civilian contracted company. The cost of having a fully trained and experienced armed police officer acting in a para-military role is far higher than the alternative.
 
#11
sparky8 said:
Another "outstanding" post, must ask exactly what you thought you were gonna get from starting this thread?
Well something perhaps other than one liners. (although I am as guilty as anyone at using them for cheap effect).

Can you imagine what the costs of maintaining a 24 hr guard of trained/experienced police officers is at somewhere like Heathrow. Now the police like it cos they get additional pay, overtime and other perks. But the effect is that trained and qualiied police are being diverted from policing the streets and are getting increasingly tied up in Key point guards, somethinmg that could be out sourced. this outsourcing could be on anynumber of basis to ensure that it was properly constituted and satisfied the requirement (prior to it becoming forrmally accepted). the result (if sucessful) would be a saving of trained police manpower, you would still need some police located at Airports etc, but not the very high numbers of armed patrols we see nowadays. Bear in mind that when they do increase security they still call in MOD assistance.
 
#12
I've long thought that we need an armed para-military force in this country, something like the Gendarmarie that exists in other European countries.
Not only could they be used to guard sensitive facilities, but they could be tasked with border security and double up as public order/riot control.
 
#13
Keeping trained Police Officers tied up stagging on is nonsense.

While all of these highly trained and expensive assets are used in this way there will always be a justification for community support officers to walk around town centres and council estates carrying out most of the role of police officers.

If there is a need for an uber Securicor then create one and pay security guard salaries. Put Police Officers back where they belong, policing the community.
 
#14
Outstanding said:
sparky8 said:
. Now the police like it cos they get additional pay, overtime and other perks. .
No they don't. The police do not pay any extra for 'specialist skills'. Overtime is usually less, as the manpower levels are a known quantity, unlike the normal police role. As for the cheap on tube trains jibe. They did what they thought was right at the time. Just like the SAS in Gibraltar. Sounds to me like you either failed police selection or want a job as an armed security guard!
 
#15
Rapier said:
No they don't. The police do not pay any extra for 'specialist skills'. Overtime is usually less, as the manpower levels are a known quantity, unlike the normal police role.
That's my point really 'normal police' are working overtime as the 'other police' are doing 'other' things. Those 'other' things are of course the ambition of most Police Officers who will do anything they can to get off the beat. Sadly Joe Public rather likes to see police officers policing, soldiers soldiering and security guards guarding.
 
#16
I think that recruiting more MPGS to provide static armed guards is the only sensible way to meet the need. Since the requirement for armed guards looks to be increasing. See Energy plants may get armed terror guards

That article suggests that the Civil Nuclear Constabulary would be expanded. But they must be stretched thin just looking after nuclear plants.

Let the armed police provide the perimeter guards, they'll be the ones who interact with the public, and let the MPGS be the inner guard.
 
#17
There are a good deal more incidents involving armed police than are ever reported...and while they have had bad press recently I can't imagine they let undertrained armed police wander the streets!

Dudders
 
#18
IT_Rogue said:
That article suggests that the Civil Nuclear Constabulary would be expanded. But they must be stretched thin just looking after nuclear plants.
What was wrong with there previous name?

The Atomic Energy Authority Constabulary. CNC sounds like a PCSO outfit!!!
 
#19
Perhaps what we need IS a two tier system.

Like the MOD Plod and the MOD Guard service.

One set to specifically guard things/people.
 
#20
chocolate_frog said:
Perhaps what we need IS a two tier system.

Like the MOD Plod and the MOD Guard service.

One set to specifically guard things/people.
That's actually a pretty sensible idea, now I've thought about it. They could do part of Police Training but with a lot of the things they wouldn't need ( Drink Drive, Traffic stuff etc) left out. Arrest and Public Order stuff and then the firearms training and tactics (including fitness) at the end. But they must still be part of the Police Service and sworn in as Police Officers to do the job properly.
 

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