Today's Sun Stories - No. 2 Eurofighter to be Scrapped

#1
Hoon makes a correct decision ....no really!

Hoon to ditch warplane



The bomb's rush ... Geoff Hoon is set to scrap orders for the ill-fated Eurofighter




By GEORGE PASCOE-WATSON
Deputy Political Editor

DEFENCE Secretary Geoff Hoon is poised to scrap the Eurofighter warplane — because it’s useless.
Military experts reckon the jet — jointly built by Britain, Germany, Spain and Italy — cannot be used either as a fighter or a bomber.

Now Mr Hoon is on the brink of axeing orders for 177 Eurofighters to ensure taxpayers are not left with a white elephant costing £30billion.

The move risks infuriating our three EU partners.

But Mr Hoon believes RAF pilots will be placed in grave danger if we do not back out.

The planes, called Typhoons, will not carry air-to-air missiles or precision-guided air-to-ground weapons.



Hoon ... on brink of axing orders
Picture: REUTERS


One source said: “The British taxpayer should not end up with a machine that looks pretty at air displays but can’t go into action. Geoff won’t sign up to future phases unless it is fit for going to war. And under current plans, it’s just not up to the job.”

Ministers have already written off £7billion on the first batch of 55 Typhoons.

Pulling out of future orders would cost around £2billion because of penalties in the contract.

Italy, Germany and Spain are all dragging their heels over funding.

Germany has refused to fork out the extra needed to equip the jet with up-to-date weaponry.

The RAF have only taken delivery of four aircraft.

They were four years late and will not be ready for action for another two years.

The project has been plagued by delays and cash overruns since its design 20 years ago.

Experts blame EU-loving ex-Defence Secretary Michael Heseltine for lumbering us with the project.
 
#2
So I presume we'll be buying JSF's now?

Maybe we should look at what Sukhoi are doing :wink:
 
#3
I am almost lost for words.

Hoon? What a f@cking d@ck he@d.

Politcians just dont seem to care about making stupid decisions, cos they only have a short career anyway. They are not around to reap the shyte that hits the fan two, five, or ten years later.

I give up. :?
 
#4
Hootch said:
Experts blame EU-loving ex-Defence Secretary Michael Heseltine for lumbering us with the project.
MoD (PE) will presumably escape any accountability for their part in this fiasco. So, no change there, then.
 
#5
PartTimePongo said:
So I presume we'll be buying JSF's now?

Maybe we should look at what Sukhoi are doing :wink:
PTP, why this wasn't feeking thought of in the first place is beyond me !! There is enough excellent 'off the shelf' fighter aircraft from around the globe that Britain could have purchased and adapted to meet the UKs defence, instead of pouring money in to this bottomless pit.
 
#6
Ah, but that wouldn't have kept the politicians euro chums happy...once on the euro gravy train most of the b**tards (of whatever party) don't want to get off it as it would mean a loss of trips and "Gifts" and perks

EU - a Socialist dictator ship by another name??? Take a long look at its structure and remit and the way it does business and then contrast it with the old USSR's parliament

Just don't get me started on the Euro - how they ever thought that one currency and tax law would work across all the different economic regions is beyond me
 
#7
Buy Yank.

That way our US AAA / PATRIOT chums will recognise the bugger and not try to shoot it down.

For Gods' sake avoid Frog kit. The glee from the Soapdodgers should we do that, would be intolerable.
 

Unknown_Quantity

War Hero
Moderator
#8
What are the Swedes offering these days?
 
#9
Gunny Highway said:
There is enough excellent 'off the shelf' fighter aircraft from around the globe that Britain could have purchased and adapted to meet the UKs defence, instead of pouring money in to this bottomless pit.
You would rather buy French? Or get stuffed by them or the Americans again? (remember Lynx? TRACER? F-111?) The Gripen is a reasonably short-legged single-engined self-defence fighter, not quite so suitable to meet SDR commitments.

As usual, the Sun is simplifying things for its readership. You know, people who think all tracked vehicles are tanks.

Typhoon isn't half bad; it outperforms everything out there except the F-22. Manouverable as all hell, good weapons fit, the sensors are first rate, and (critically) the maintenance man-hours per flying hour is a factor of three less than its predecessor. I'd like to hear which "military experts" claim that it won't work as a fighter; "I heard it off a gobby SAC at an airshow", perhaps?

Claiming that "it doesn't work" is typical Sun b***ocks. You would prefer that we go up against the next decade's Su-27-armed enemy with thirty year old Tornado ADV?

I suspect that what they're trying to say is that Hoon is about to cancel Tranche 3, maybe even Tranche 2. If so, fair cop, but otherwise yarg.
 
#10
Bravo_Bravo said:
Buy Yank.
That way our US AAA / PATRIOT chums will recognise the bugger and not try to shoot it down.
Nah, remember those two Blackhawks in Kurdistan in the mid-1990s, shot down by F-15 drivers who positively identified them as HIND? Three Brits died in that one, IIRC.

That would be like suggesting that they don't do Blue-on-Blue on their own kit, just ours. Several M1A1s suggest otherwise......
 
#11
And the only reason that F-16 Usaf pilot in the gulf is alive today, is because he fired first against the patriot battery.....
 
#12
slight problem Tranche 3 are the ones we actually need. 1&2 are air defence fighters with a limited ground attack capability. the trance 3 ones are the ones that are multirole. And so we will have probably to spend more to get batch 1&2 up to standard than if we had bought the batch 3's and flogged the 1'sand 2's to the Greeks,Austrians and Singapore. who effectivly will get better aircraft than the RAF well done Buffy 8O
 
#13
The planes, called Typhoons, will not carry air-to-air missiles or precision-guided air-to-ground weapons.
That's funny, because at the British Aerospace factory at Warton which is just a few miles down the road from me there are tons of the bloody things taxiing around and flying in RAF livery (I often go there to be a bit of a spotter as you get a great view of the runway). Many with dummy missiles and bombs\air to ground weapons attached. Sounds like someone talking rubbish to me. As I've seen the thing flying and it is spectacular. I have talked to RAF pilots who were there on conversion training at a nearby hotel and they cannot wait to take a pop at the Americans at the next international competitions as they swear it'll beat anything they have in service.
 
#14
BULLSHIT!

Oh deary deary me. Looks like the Scum doesn't understand the distinction between an air-to-air missile and an air-to-ground missile...the reason why some people criticise the Tranche 1 and 2 Typhoons is that they ONLY do air-to-air, at least as a main role. 180 degrees out, not bad, keep going and you might end up pointing the right way...
 
#16
Why not buy Su-27s then if they're so good? The Russians could do with the cash and perhaps we could refit them with some of the flash electronics we've been working on for the Typhoon.
 
#17
As some of the Crab posters will no doubt point out, apart from the Politically suicidal decision to purchase from a former SovBloc, the Flanker hasn't the endurance required for the types of mission profile it'd be expected to fly.
You can retro-fit upgraded avionics though, as Sukhoi are doing themselves for foreign customers - better still would be the option of getting the Mikoyan-Gureyevitch design bureau and the Sukhoi design bureau to tender for the replacement to the Tai'fun.
Maybe we'd get a decent aircraft for a change. You could also bet it'd be in on time and under-budget too...
Swap BMP3 for the bloody Saxon fleet and we'd be well-set for the next bit of unpleasantness as well...
 
#19
PartTimePongo said:
So I presume we'll be buying JSF's now?
Er - maybe not. The Spams are having a spot of bother with the JSF, but their press corps doesn't seem quite so keen on reporting it.

F-35 problems at the mo'

1. Overweight

2. Weapon bays are reputed to be a tad too small to accommodate the bombs the USAF want/need it to carry

3. Radar glitches & some avionics problems reported

Strongly suspect that Gravelbelly is right: the story is actually about Tranche 3, but that the journo gave up at the word 'tranche'.

There is a charming rumour starting the rounds that the MoD have realised that they drew the contract for Typhoon so tightly to ensure that the Germans couldn't withdraw that it'll be impossible to save any money if Tranche 3 is reduced without the agreement of the other partners - including the Germans, who now appear to want all 180 they're scheduled to buy, and who won't agree.

Nurse's idea therefore comes in here - persuade various nations to buy about 50-90 of the 232 on order direct from the UK rather than Eurofighter GBmH (2nd hand, one careful lady owner, thus slightly cheaper) and use the cash raised to bring forward integrating the A-G capability in Tranches 1 & 2. Well, so the story goes...
 
#20
Arkady said:
Swap BMP3 for the bloody Saxon fleet and we'd be well-set for the next bit of unpleasantness as well...
Right....... you want to shoehorn everyone into something that requires you to climb out of the top (or along a narrow tunnel over the engine) with arguable tradeoffs for Health&Safety versus utility, and a design philosophy that says "it's OK if it breaks or gets killed, it goes fast instead, and we've got a few hundred others in the Division".

Still, you get lots of guns on the front, and some dodgy French electronics fitted :) It might even swim, but rather you than me, mate ;)

I'd be curious to see what the Russian IFV of choice is for Chechnya, and how well BMP-3 did (it it got the chance) against fUSSR kit as employed by Chechens.
 

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