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To smack or not to smack - liberal professor seeks publicity

Hospitalizing an 80 year old man because he had cause to discipline you at school is a bit naughty.

He saw me giggling at a mate who was making silly faces and thought I was giggling at a bench that had been marked with a chisel. The knob was sacked sometime later for throwing a boy accross the classroom.
He rued the day he said he'd do some canvasing for a local MP, came right to my door, nice of him.
 
Reading some of the posts, it's like "ARRSE 1812, instead of ARRSE 2012. Whatever happened to the development of a more enlightened attitude?

The main cause of children "misbehaving" is because for the most part they're treated as cretins by their parents, who themselves were treated like cretins in the same way, and not as human beings with less experience of life. That should be the most important task of parents - to teach their children about life. That means talking to them and taking them seriously, and not using them as easy targets to bolster the parents', and other adults', own shaky self-esteem. It means entering into a genuine partnership with the kids and giving them a sense of responsibility from an early age. That way, they very quickly understand that discussion is a real way of defusing any conflicts.

We did it with our kids and they'd actually come up to me and say: "Bugs, I think I've fucked up big-time", and tell me about it. We'd then discuss how to remedy the situation. That was when they were five and six years old, and it continued as they became older.

All talk about "discipline" is bullshit. It just prepares the kids to accept the state using violence to force its views upon them, instead of actually engaging them in debate about the issues involved. Admittedly, the method we used involves a whole lot more effort, but I'm convinced that it produces much more rounded human beings than those subjected to the "smacking method" who for the most part don't really learn to attempt to reconcile their own desires with those of others, but rather to smarten up their act so that they don't get caught a second time. That's not a good way to perpetuate a society.

MsG
 
It's Bullshit...

Me and My Brother got smacked when we did something wrong. We were never beaten up, punched, kicked, or mistreated, but we did learn there would be consequences for certain acts. Oddly My Mother was the disciplinarian, not my father who was a First Sergeant in the pre Vietnam army. He never could bring himself to lay hands upon us, but when we got the Look from him we knew we'd fucked up. Both the smack and the Look were equally wilting. Neighbor kids raised under the dr. Spock method were nuts, I remember one kid at 12 being arrested for stealing a car, numerous others brought home by the cops for vandalism, theft, drugs, assault, basically free range children.
 
The main cause of children "misbehaving" is because for the most part they're treated as cretins by their parents, who themselves were treated like cretins in the same way, and not as human beings with less experience of life.

I think the opposite is the case, they are treated as adults literally from birth, kids don't have childhoods any more and the consequences are in most cases self opinionated lawless, arrogant little scrotes who haven't a clue what life is really about.

It doesn't matter what species of the animal kingdom you look at there is a pecking order and any ranking within that order has to be learned & earned & if they piss off the hierarchy they get a short sharp reminder of their place within the group.
 
I think the opposite is the case, they are treated as adults literally from birth, kids don't have childhoods any more and the consequences are in most cases self opinionated lawless, arrogant little scrotes who haven't a clue what life is really about.
I don't believe that they are treated like adults. Here's a typical example:

Ma: "Chardonnay, stop splashing around in that puddle and come over here. I mean now! Otherwise, you'll be for it, young lady!!

Now, admittedly, adults don't often go around splashing in puddles. But would you even entertain the thought of admonishing them as in the example above? Especially if they were a couple of sizes larger than you. So why subject kids to such treatment.

It's not that kids are treated like adults at all. And it's because they're not that they do everything they can (smoking, drinking, using the same disparaging methods on their peers that are used on them) to appear "grown-up", because they clearly see that adults don't have to put up with the same behaviour. Young folks want to put their childhood behind them as quickly as possible. That's why many of them profess, even in their mid-twenties, to being unable to understand "the kids". Childhood should be an enriching and rewarding experience, instead it's often seen as a period of prolonged torture. That's not a good way to prepare folks to become valuable members of any society, and it backfires badly almost every time.
It doesn't matter what species of the animal kingdom you look at there is a pecking order and any ranking within that order has to be learned & earned & if they piss off the hierarchy they get a short sharp reminder of their place within the group.
So that makes it alright, does it? We humans have the ability to communicate comparatively complicated issues, even to very young children. Just flailing at them because they're supposed to have done something "wrong" in the eyes of an adult is very often the only method used. Again, not good.

MsG
 
Spare the rod, spoil the child.
Mind some of the parents could do with ******* birching never mind smacking.
 
Ma: "Chardonnay, stop splashing around in that puddle and come over here. I mean now! Otherwise, you'll be for it, young lady!!

Now, admittedly, adults don't often go around splashing in puddles. But would you even entertain the thought of admonishing them as in the example above?

No, because I don't pay for our fantasy adult's shoes, socks and trousers, I don't have to get their shoes, socks and trousers cleaned and dried and the adult won't be whining at me that their feet are cold and wet for the rest of the day. I do have to do and put up with all of that from my child if I let them splash round in puddles.
 
So that makes it alright, does it? We humans have the ability to communicate comparatively complicated issues, even to very young children. Just flailing at them because they're supposed to have done something "wrong" in the eyes of an adult is very often the only method used. Again, not good.

You are assuming that I condone hitting a child for the slightest misdemeanor, I don't. What I do condone is a smack when they are deliberately disobedient after being told repeatedly either to do or not do something or if they've done something harmful. A smack reinforces what you have told them & they learn that disobedience has it's consequences.
 
No, because I don't pay for our fantasy adults shoes, socks and trousers, I don't have to get their shoes, socks and trousers cleaned and dried and the adult won't be whining at me that their feet are cold and wet for the rest of the day. I do have to do and put up with all of that from my child if I let them splash round in puddles.
True indeed. And that's why adults rarely splash around in puddles - because they're aware of the points you mention. But why aren't your kids aware of them? Could it be that you just "discipline" them without actually explaining why? I mean in a way that's accessible to their simplified understanding of life and with which they can equate. Otherwise, getting their shoes, socks and trousers cleaned is just a totally abstract concept to them, but you'd be surprised just how much even very small children can understand when it's explained in the right manner. The question then becomes: do you have the time and the patience to do that?

I'm not in any way suggesting that you don't treat your kids properly. I was just using your post to illustrate that we haven't really progressed in the upbringing of our kids since the 19th Century and that the same basic attitude to the subject is the same as was extant at that time.

MsG
 
My kid's only actually one so he's a bit young for being smacked properly yet. He sometimes gets his hand slapped if he's doing something that could end up with him getting hurt because he doesn't understand English but he needs to be stopped from messing round with the TV (in case he pulls it over onto himself), climbing on the furniture (in case he falls off) etc.

When he's old enough to understand talking then he'll be told not to do something and why. Then he'll be told again. If he carries on doing it he'll get a smack.
 
You are assuming that I condone hitting a child for the slightest misdemeanor, I don't. What I do condone is a smack when they are deliberately disobedient after being told repeatedly either to do or not do something or if they've done something harmful. A smack reinforces what you have told them & they learn that disobedience has it's consequences.
I'm not assuming anything at all about your attitude to punishing children. However, your last sentence does sort of support my thesis that we've not progressed at all from 19th Century attitudes to children's upbringing. In fact, all your doing is preparing your child for the same treatment by the state, in the form of the Old Bill, courts, etc, that will maintain the present diabolical system of gross unfairness and injustice in society.

MsG
 
I'm not assuming anything at all about your attitude to punishing children. However, your last sentence does sort of support my thesis that we've not progressed at all from 19th Century attitudes to children's upbringing. In fact, all your doing is preparing your child for the same treatment by the state, in the form of the Old Bill, courts, etc, that will maintain the present diabolical system of gross unfairness and injustice in society.

MsG

Probably because such a system is designed to prevent anarchy... something which society is now speeding headlong into because of tree-hugging left-wing liberals who think it's their divine duty to tell 'everyone' how they should bring up their kids.

There have always been feral kids, but in general they were a rarity now it's become the norm because there's been at least three generations who have not been taught how to live in a civilized society.
 
Probably because such a system is designed to prevent anarchy... something which society is now speeding headlong into because of tree-hugging left-wing liberals who think it's their divine duty to tell 'everyone' how they should bring up their kids.

There have always been feral kids, but in general they were a rarity now it's become the norm because there's been at least three generations who have not been taught how to live in a civilized society.
Designed to prevent anarchy? You really are either a comedian or sadly misguided. It's designed to prevent true democracy and equality and nothing else. Get the general population to force their kids to accept "rules" without justifying them and it becomes easier for the rulers to carry on as before and **** them over when they're adults.

MsG
 
Designed to prevent anarchy? You really are either a comedian or sadly misguided. It's designed to prevent true democracy and equality and nothing else. Get the general population to force their kids to accept "rules" without justifying them and it becomes easier for the rulers to carry on as before and **** them over when they're adults.

MsG

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit.
 

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