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To smack or not to smack - liberal professor seeks publicity

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
The good professor may have a point - I certainly wanted to punch him after reading this, not to mention the silly bint from Mumsnet.

Smacking never right, say doctors - Telegraph

This whole issue is coming back to the fore and the usual bed-wetters are stirring. My kids get smacked about twice a year but the threat is hugely effective. I haven't noticed an urge to escalate to punching or to take administrative action with a tyre-iron. Hopefully this and other pieces of liberal rubbish will now start to be rolled back. The creature from Mumsnet seems equally hopeless.
 
#2
Historical evidence is all you need to put this issue to bed.
Prior to parents and teachers being restricted on how they punish their children, these same children were (on the whole) exceptionally well behaved, respected their elders and turned out to be persons who actually contributed to society.

What do we get today? Kids rioting in the streets, bad behaviour towards teachers including assaults, a lax attitude to work on attaining adulthood and the expectation that benefits will look after them for life.

Did we have these problems prior to say 1980 on the scale we have today? Of course we didn't

All that said of course there are a huge number of well behaved kids in our schools and communities who do go on to contribute but I bet these are subject to some sort of corporal punishment in the home.

Mine when they misbehaved I would restrict their (wireless internet) for a week or two by changing the password. Other offences may result in being grounded again for a week or two. Only on a few very specific occasions have I taken my hand to their arses.

My old man was in the RN and used to knock me about it bit from age 13. I never took that attitude with my children as I didn't agree with the scale of admonishment he dispensed. It did stand me in good stead though when I got to basic training.

Edit to add.

I completed secondary school in the mid 1970's. Teachers used corporal punishment to maintain order, the official basis was the cane across the hand in the head's office, unofficially was the half javlein or training shoe across the arse out front of the class. It never harmed any of us and certainly focused the mind when it came to listening to the teachers.
 
#3
The usual bloody crap! The liberal simpletons seem to think that, if not banned by a vaguely worded law, the parents of Britain will embark on a smacking frenzy leaving the children of the nation a battered, bruised, and bleeding, stain on the floor.

When I was at school corporal punishment was allowed, strangely enough we weren't beaten to a pulp everyday. The sanction was one of a set of options, and rarely used, but it was available.

Likewise parental discipline, the idea of social services getting invoved is anathema to me, they do so well in this field, let's face it, the sort of parent who beats their children to excess is hardly going to worry about the law.

Esther Rantzen wrote an article a few years back where she stated that Childline had become a bit of a monster, children threatening to call them if they didn't want to do what a parent wanted to be done. Children are ignorant and know less than most adults as a result of being less experienced. Child centric enviroments are mostly a waste of time.

As an aside some school friends of mine, four siblings, were more and more unruly and badly behaved the from the eldest down to the youngest; one parent was a teacher, the other published learned tomes on child psychology and parenting. Experts tend to be wrong, even Dr Spock refuted his own book, after he'd taken the money.
 
#4
These hand-wringing feckin' liberals really grip my shit with their stupid ideas.

Life's full of hard knocks & lessons have to be learned.... sometimes they have to be emphasized with minor pain to make sure they have sunk in.
 
G

goatrutar

Guest
#5
Thank **** I don't have kids. You can't reason with young kids and I just want to punch the average teenager.
 
#6
I'm a little on the fence on the matter. On the one hand, kids today deserve a good smack (unless they're my 6-year old half brother, who actively taunts his dad into doing it...) and it's easy to draw comparisons between the decline in corporal punishment and the rise of kids behaving badly, whilst on the other hand, nobody smacks adults when they "misbehave" (on the whole at least), so what lesson is it imparting that a restriction of some privileges doesn't?
 
#7
On another forum I subscribe to it was suggested that the children themselves should be consulted on the matter.

I thought this quite a good idea, however when I approached the gang of kids hanging about outside my house they told me to f**k off.

The thought crossed my mind that I should have slapped a couple of heads but I'm not the strapping adonis I once was, besides they were eight and nine years old and there were a couple of lads too. Some were armed with White Lightning and Cider bottles.

I left it at that.
 
#8
I used to think smacking was agood idea, in the end it's more about taking out your frustration on the childs bad behaviour rather than setting any example or life lesson. As punishments go it's pretty ineffective long term and even sets a pretty shit example.
I was brought up with smacking never did me any harm! Bollocks I have a very quick temper and am far too willing to kick off at the slightest provocation.
Nope I wish I had a more Liberal poncey upbringing, might have saved a few broken bones in my hands.
 
#9
I too was smacked as a child and I believe that it did me no harm. If smacking is used to reinforce a message; i.e. if you do that again I will smack you and then the threat is carried through it shows the child that there is a line in the sand. Of course the child must be old enough to understand and if consistence is maintained you should never have need to smack as they get older.

Children are immature but they are great manipulators therefore both parents need to reinforce the message. Smacking should never be done in temper, always cold and calculated. If a child is sent upstairs to await punishment, the parent can calm down whilst the child awaits punishment and the fear of the actual punishment may be greater than the punishment itself!
 
#10
I used to think smacking was agood idea, in the end it's more about taking out your frustration on the childs bad behaviour rather than setting any example or life lesson. As punishments go it's pretty ineffective long term and even sets a pretty shit example.
I was brought up with smacking never did me any harm! Bollocks I have a very quick temper and am far too willing to kick off at the slightest provocation.
Nope I wish I had a more Liberal poncey upbringing, might have saved a few broken bones in my hands.
My mother dished out a lashing at the drop of a hat and I believe she took great pleasure in doing it, I hate her to this day. I think smacking should be a last resort punishment, I have smacked my little one once and thoughts of being like my mother immediately caused me a few issues inside the noggin.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#11
About five years ago pair of doctors once asked me too look after their unruly daughter for an evening and at one stage she received a smack.

It got right out of hand and fcuking ruined my holiday in the Algarve.
 
#12
Historical evidence is all you need to put this issue to bed.


Did we have these problems prior to say 1980 on the scale we have today? Of course we didn't
No of course not.
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”
Sōkrátēs; c. 469 BC – 399 BC (possibly)
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century)
Purely a modern affliction are badly behaved children.
 
#13
The trouble is this - You want parents to be responsible for their children's behaviour but give them no meaningful way of enforcing their will on said children (remember we are not just talking about todlers here). Child abuse is quite rightly a crime. If there is evidence of actual lasting injury being caused that is quite different from a quick slap on the arse or back of the hand.

If we really want to give parents no power over their children, perhaps what we really need is a lowering of the age of criminal responsibility and a return to something like the borstal system.
 
#15
Mine all got a tap on the nappy after 3 warnings as toddlers, and hand on heart, now aged 17,15 and 12, they never give me a moments trouble.They do well at school, I can have a real giggle with them, they don't give me any of the usual 'kevin an' perry' type attitude! The daughter thing has just been promoted at cadets, the eldest is playing County rugby at colts level and the youngest.....well let's just say I suspect he'll be a very good 'shopping companion' for his dear ol' mum :D
Maybe I'm just lucky, but I look at their friends and wonder if their parents ever gave them a clip...because by Christ some of them need it!
 
#16
Badly beaten daily as a kid by my maiden aunt and school teachers and I can never forgive them,,however it did teach me to either respect or fear authority,,and behave myself......And before any body asks,,Yes I did smack my kids....
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#17
Mine all got a tap on the nappy after 3 warnings as toddlers, and hand on heart, now aged 17,15 and 12, they never give me a moments trouble.They do well at school, I can have a real giggle with them, they don't give me any of the usual 'kevin an' perry' type attitude! The daughter thing has just been promoted at cadets, the eldest is playing County rugby at colts level and the youngest.....well let's just say I suspect he'll be a very good 'shopping companion' for his dear ol' mum :D
Maybe I'm just lucky, but I look at their friends and wonder if their parents ever gave them a clip...because by Christ some of them need it!
So you've got produced of each then ?
 
#18
... who makes these laws up ??? whats this prevention of the application of force that causes "reddening of the skin" ... what about black children ? I guess they can be beaten harder because their skin wont redden ! madness, ill thought out rubbish. Who pays these "experts" wages ?
 
#19
The worst behaved kids in our village by far are those of the Social Worker. Totally unruly to the point that the parents actually explain their inability to attend social functions as being because the kids will not behave... My father in law is a retired child psycologist, his view is that " Every child needs a pat on the back. Every so often they need one a bit harder and a bit lower down."
 
#20
I'm old enough to have been at school when corporal punishment was still the norm. I went to a school where it was handed out liberally too. The odd thing it was always the same suspects who ended up waiting outside the office. So either the cane was not a deterrent or I had a very guilty look about me.

I'm sure discipline should start at home - but when you hear working class mums swearing in front of their kids and behaving like teenagers themselves it's unlikely that
a good example is going to be set. If the kids misbehave punish the parents. If they steal take away the family widescreen HD TV. If the kids beat up Old Folk,get the Parents to make amends by working in an Retirement Home (in the incorrigible incontinent department) etc.

Otherwise enforced neutering should be applied.
 

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