To MD or not to MD that is the question

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by Chris1, Oct 17, 2006.

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  1. Hi there,

    I hope someone can offer us some advive or guidance.
    What happens when shin splints/compartment syndrome is caused during basic and then treated with the old reliable ice packs and brufen ? Just to keep the passing out numbers up!! Most of the time my daughter couldn't walk but was still encouraged to finish exercises required for passing out(she nearly did pass out literally). She moved base to complete phase 2, got put on sick, had an operation(and had the privilege of paying for her crutches). :x The operation failed but the battle scars look impressive.
    She is still on sick. The hospital has advised a MD, but the army won't. Her superiors are giving her bucketloads of grief for being depressed and not appreciating the freedom to do odd jobs.
    Join The Army And Clean Bogs - Be The Best !!!! :eek: 8O
    The army want her to do 7 weeks in stores and then send her on to her unit fully qualified but on long term sick. They wont let her re-cap and have offered her no support or advice.
    What can she do ?

    P.S. She gets numbness in her legs due to nerve compression and often trips herself up and still no MD. Why ? She has not been allowed to do P.E. or even swim for months. Apparently though, you dont use your legs while cleaning bogs and running errands.

    P.P.S Great site...!!!

    Chris. :
     
  2. I had the same problem and was discharged back in 2000. I insisted that I wanted to rejoin and they told me I had to wait 2 yrs.

    I waited 2yrs and rejoined and have not had any problems since.

    I think she should take the MD, have a proper break and then rejoin when allowed to again. If she stays in she will just aggravate it more because the army seem to put you through the physical tests again as soon as they think you are ready, which only makes it reoccur.

    The main reason I found from the majority of people I know who had/have the same problem was lack of preparation before starting the army training.

    She should take a long break and then when she wants to reapply, start progressive training and progressively make her impact training (running) harder over an extended period which should make her body used to it. She now knows what is involved in the army training so if she does have an MD and rejoins the can adapt her training program to get her body ready and can maybe even start to TAB with light weight and work her way up.

    It took me 8 months of training to get to the level I wanted. I could have pushed myself alot harder but took it easy to prepare my legs/shins properly.

    Lets hope she gets through it.
     
  3. I had gawd awful shin splints all through basic. I just kept my head down and got through it by guzzling down brufen and taking the constant pain, not smart but I wasn't doing basic again - as I see your daughter has cracked this bit, she must have done the same.

    I was held back one squad in phase 2 training as they were still killing me, even when I rejoined the next group through in a couple of months time, I still wasn't 100%, but got through phase 2 nonetheless. The splints continued to plauge me through my first posting, after this however, I got a post where you had to do your own fitness, and and as such, spent it rowing and on the exercise bikes and weights - the splints finally went away properly, and I became fitter than I'd ever been, because I was no longer dreading PT. What the DS need to do, instead of giving her bog cleaning, is to sort a proper low impact PT program out for her.

    I didn't have surgery, that does sound like a complication however, I'd have to disagree with monkeyseemonkeydo - she is so close to becoming a fully trained tradesperson, I think she'd be better served to get through it, and get to a unit before deciding what to do next. I know if I'd have gotten out in those early days, chances are I'd not have gone back, and I'd have missed so much of life.

    Its tough for her at the minute, but if she sticks it out, in a few years time she'll realise just what a short and relatively insignificant period of time this is compared to a long term career.
     
  4. Thanks to both of you for your replies and advice.
    Having spent 3 days on the phone trying to get some on-base support for my daughter I find myself thoroughly depressed. SSAFA did get the dogs called off, which is a huge help, but now her superior's are talking 'Admin Discharge' and no options. The options originally mentioned to her seem not to have been real options at all.She was threatened with an MD for months, then the base tried to bully her into 'walking' instead, until SSAFA intervened. now she's been advised they're going for this 'Admin Discharge', no year off on MD or anything else.
    She has only done two thirds of Phase 2 as the last part is physical and she's not allowed anything physical on doctors orders.
    If she did 7 weeks in stores, will that complete her Phase 2 training ?(Why do we have to go to websites to find out these things).
    Ten days ago she was told she had to do this 7 weeks in stores training and then get sent on to her unit. Now this doesn't seem to be an option.
    Apparently if you do try to get some help in understanding all this its a big black mark.
    The shame of it all is that my daughter would make a great soldier and be only an asset to the army. What on earth goes through these peoples heads ?

    Chris.
     
  5. If she's really miserable, on the other hand, then maybe it is time to go. State of mind would make a lot of difference - I was in a lot of pain and annoyed about being held back, but I was never persecuted or given a hard time, and apart from the obvious injury, was happy.
     
  6. She has probably been marked down as an admin case because here parents have started pestering the chain of command. You don't work for the army, she does. Do you phone up your other childrens employers and cause them hassle?

    If she has compartment syndrome which does not respond to treatment a job whereby she is required to use her lower limbs a lot is probably not for her.

    It sounds like she is using the old "depression" card as well. She isn't the one you should be feeling sorry for. Imagine the misery you are causing her troop staff because you won't let her sort out her own life.

    If I were you, pretend you never got hold of the Padres/Adjutants/Guardroom/WRVS/OCs/SSMs number and leave them all alone to do a job they know a lot more about than you.
     
  7. ASR1 speaks the truth.

    :(

    Ne'er mind eh. If she'd gone with the quite good advice they'd given, (the stores thing then on to the unit where she could undertake proper corrective rehab for her injuries) she'd still be looking at a career, not trying to find a job as it looks like she will be doing.
     
  8. Sorry got to disagree there, never underestimate the power of an aggrieved parent! Just look at the various Deepcut enquires if you dont believe me. Army recruiting just cant sustain the bad press this type of thing attracts.

    My advice is to make an appointment with the Commanding Officer to air your thoughts and also threaten to get your local MP and newspaper involved. The reason being is that both shin splints and compartment syndrome can be easily cured without the need for any form of discharge. Also get in touch with Forces Law, an independent network of legal companies that understand military Law. You get a free first consultation.

    If she is still registered with your family GP get her booked in there for impartial advice and most importantly get the GP to write their findings so you can confront the CO with them.

    The unit will most likely be seeking a discharge under AGAI 67. This is their prefered way as a medical discharge would mean an entitlement to financial compensation for loss of earnings etc.

    Your daughter needs to start a formal complaint under AGAI 70 as she clearly has not received the correct medical care and she is also now experiencing corporate bullying and victimisation due to being medically unfit. Get her to go and see WRVS, Welfare officer and the Padre. She needs to enlist all available support to win this. If she is experiencing this much hostility then she might as well fight to the last!

    Im afraid the last two posts are typical examples of the type of people who are now trying to end your daughters career before it has really begun. So what if she has caused the troop staff extra work?

    Basic training is the hard part and that is over with. Phase 2 training is a bit of an anti climax after basic, but once posted to a real unit things pick up again.

    PM me if you need any more help!
     
  9. The hospital advise an MD because they don't know what it means in military terms. compartment syndrome is not caused by being in the army, so they don't have to pay compensation. the surgery will have been done by a civilian surgeon, not military, so it will be his fault if he has been negligent. the complete success rate for surgery isn't particularly good anyway. the army has does nothing wrong.

    admin discharges are for admin cases. sometimes you have to accept what you are and move on. not that I would know!
     
  10. And as we have only got a parent's thirdhand info to go on, Im afraid

    ASR1 still speaks the truth...


    :wink:
     
  11. Hi,

    Cheers to everyone for advice about shin splints, compartment syndrome, MD's, etc...
    For anyone else in a similar position here is the story. My daughter was a bit old when she joined the army. 25, which probably didn't help as far as shin splints go, but she was working in a gym and did plenty of road running prior to joining. The shin splints etc started after phase 1 training was well underway. She was stuffed with brufen and 'encouraged' to finish phase 1, even though she was supposed to be on sick. During phase 2(while still on sick) she completed 2/3 of the training but couldn't do the physical stuff. She was threatened with MD then offered the op. The hospital warned her that they didn't think it would work, but she went for it as she wanted to complete training. When it was clear that it hadn't worked, she got depressed and was being badly bullied(emotionally) in an attempt to make her 'walk'(out of the army). She had to go to SSAFA to get them to call the dogs off, which they did, but it was NOT a nice road to have to go down. She was then told that she was getting an Admin Discharge not an MD. This has now changed. She will be getting an MD with the option of re-joining at a later date.
    The army gave no advice, help or support until SSAFA intervention. She had been to base welfare herself, but it made things much worse, as they had to speak to staff Sgt and he was not happy.Welfare have been very supportive since. Depression appears to be seen as a weakness or a joke. It is very hard to realise that your career has ended before it has really started, and being treated like a mushroom will never help. It is hard to watch a very positive, determined, happy-go-lucky child turn into a hopeless wreck.The army should be straight with people on long term sick, provide helpful, interesting work options during this time and recognise that it is depressing being in 24hr constant pain, feeling useless and watching all your mates leave. They should provide some support, not constantly wipe the floor with you.
    If you find yourself in a similar position, find out all your work options on base, don't be ignored or walked on. If they get heavy handed, stop them or get help to stop them. Depressed, hopeless people(in pain) don't function well and shouldn't have to battle for every ounce of info.
    Claim Disability Living Allowance while still serving, your wages and savings are not taken into account(info from British Legion).
    Our armed forces are our protection(and half the world's, it seems). Its time you all were treated in a manner fitting that status(by everyone). Defending us does not mean that our forces personnel are feelingless, mindless, tireless hunks of meat. You shouldn't have to fight for the respect due to you.

    Chris.

    P.S. The very high 'higher ups' have been fine. Its the lower down 'higher ups' that have been the problem (eg. 2 stripers & staff Sgt's)

    P.P.S. The veterans Agency are very helpful.
     
  12. Shin Splints are caused by minute muscle tears, caused by an increase in exercise. The body sends collagen to repair the tears but the adhesive nature of the collagen 'glues' the muscle fibres to the bone. This can be treated by any good Sports Massage Therapist. It involves tearing the muscle off the bone, which hurts a lot but cures the condition. Check out the LSSM (London School of Sports Massage) Website for suitably trained people in your area.
     
  13. Thanks for the helpful advive Rapier. Will have a look to see if there is anyone locally.

    Cheers,

    Chris.
     
  14. Hi again,

    A few words to asr1.....
    Are you a staff Sgt, by any chance ?
    My daughter knows full well what HER responsibilities to the army are, she also knows what their responsibilities to her are, or should be.
    Where did I say that I had phoned the army ? You are making naff assumptions about people and situations you know little about and probably wouldn't understand, if your attitude is anything to go by.
    I grew up on army camps/bases all over the world. I DO know how the army work and I'm used to the macho manure employed by the MINORITY. The MAJORITY of soldiers are the heroes of childhood and dont see compassion as a weakness.
    Base welfare told SSAFA that I had to ring and speak to them myself. No I did not want to for the reasons above. Welfare advised me to speak to the M.O. who freely admitted that my daughter had been depressed for months, something she had not told me herself. She had tried the Padre and welfare herself, and it had caused her a lot of trouble. Her 2nd visit to the Padre resulted in him going ape with the 'chain of command' because she was in such a mess(hence THEIR 'suicide alert').
    Another bloke on base(thank God for decent men) reported her deterioration to his boss, a Colonel, who was also fuming and kicked some ass.(she was nothing to do with it). She had been cast adrift by her chain of command and could see no light at the end of the tunnel, due to lack of advice, support or information. She's now getting back on her feet, so to speak, as she has some direction.
    As for your impressive list of numbers, I don't have any of them and never have had them.

    Chris.

    P.S. I don't think wimps would pass phase 1, especially with an injury.