Time to stand up for the Armed Forces

Is it time to stand up and be counted

  • Yes comrades our Potemkin moment has arrived

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No let us remain comfortably under the jackboot of oppression

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
The furore over the neglect of the Armed Forces by TCH, the current part-time SoS and the brooding Chancellor/PM is long overdue and coming to a head.

Latest BBC article here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7108650.stm

This is what Browne said:

I will put my record in relation to both commitment and delivery up against anyone's...tell me what it is that a secretary of state for defence should be doing, that I am not doing... This is not an issue that has ever been raised with me by any serving soldier when I have been in an operational theatre."
The observant will, of course, note that it is unlikely for this issue to be raised by a serving soldier. Without wanting to deviate from the point, I recall a junior rank getting various stand-up b0llockings after raising a minor gripe with a 2-star during an inspection.

Browne appears to suggest that such issues can be raised with him by serving soldiers, and the absence of the raising of such issues is proof of their non-existence.

Is it time to test this? Personnel are barred from unauthorised media contact and allegedly barred from discussing defence matters without permission (although the DCI doesn't appear to be fit for use as toilet paper even in field conditions).

However, what if a brief letter to SoS was drafted that stated the undersigned serving personnel believed that the Military Covenant was not being honoured and there was little confidence in operational funding (or words to those effect)? The letter would be widely circulated and photocopied, to be sent either direct to SoS or to a clearing house where a note of the number of signatures could be kept (as MoD would deny it ever happening).

It would be a career risk to sign it obviously...with one caveat. If enough people signed it then administrative action or disciplinary action would be impossible. To put this in perspective, the voluntary outflow rate is roughly 3.4% for officers and 5.4% for other ranks (TSP 5). If everyone on PVR signed the letter then that would be nearly 10,000 signatures. Other personnel signing the letter would be safe by the fact of the sheer weight of numbers. How do you b0llock 10,000 people? As to whether this was a breach of QRs, this would need detailed analysis but I do not think that the act of writing to the SoS is likely to be either mutiny or insubordination.

Naturally, the public impact of such a letter-writing campaign would be the primary force. It could be augmented by a similar campaign for dependants and ex-serving.

Is it time to stand up and be counted? There is a key window to exert maximum pressure. As much as I dislike this government, my overriding concern would be for the adequate funding of the Armed Forces rather than seeing an unpopular and incompeteng government attacked, but the two are inexorably intertwined. :twisted:

Edited to add...I am ex-serving, not current serving so it is easy for me to suggest this!
 
#2
It would be good if some particularly clever wordsmith could word this into some sort of petition and add it to the online petitions on the Government web site. Though I to confess I would have to sign as ex 24******* ITG
 
#4
The problem been if only a handful of folk ended up writing they would be royally bent over a table.
 
#5
The problem been if only a handful of folk ended up writing they would be royally bent over a table.
Absolutely, so it would be better if any letter was initiated and supported in the first instance from within the PVR community! Nothing to lose and all that...
 
#6
As it happens, this point came up in a live interview I have just given on BFBS radio. I suggested that Mr Browne needs to listen more to soldiers, sailors and airmen and less to his own spin doctors.

D.Y. (BAFF)

www.baff.org.uk
 
#7
The fact is that because we get on with the job no matter what the gov just ignores the military at every bloody oppurtunity. We will always get on with the job and always bitch while doing it, but the gov should finally realise there are huge problems that need to be bloody sorted or more and more will just sign off.
 
#8
Wouldn't it be useful if someone wrote to no 10 informing them of
this site and inviting them to monitor it and let them hear some of the serious issues which are being aired.

Maybe i am naive?
 
#9
Naive, maybe. Do you really think that the Govt haven't heard of this site and don't have people logging on and taking notes, it has been quoted enough in the press. Be assured, every thread is read through carefully by some nameless deskjockey whose sole job is to take notes.
 
#10
bluebell_49_echo said:
Wouldn't it be useful if someone wrote to no 10 informing them of
this site and inviting them to monitor it and let them hear some of the serious issues which are being aired.

Maybe i am naive?
Great idea, but the armed forces don't register on the PMs personal giveafuckometer even whe faced with the facts from the CGS and CDS!

Any one voting labour at the election who cares about the armed forces? I think not!
 
#11
saintstone said:
Naive, maybe. Do you really think that the Govt haven't heard of this site and don't have people logging on and taking notes, it has been quoted enough in the press. Be assured, every thread is read through carefully by some nameless deskjockey whose sole job is to take notes.
He probably had a cd full of reccomendations for improvements to the forces, then mailed them off somewhere. :)
 
#12
vampireuk said:
saintstone said:
Naive, maybe. Do you really think that the Govt haven't heard of this site and don't have people logging on and taking notes, it has been quoted enough in the press. Be assured, every thread is read through carefully by some nameless deskjockey whose sole job is to take notes.
He probably had a cd full of reccomendations for improvements to the forces, then mailed them off somewhere. :)
Hence, the reason that nothing has happened, they haven't recieved the last 5 yrs worth of correspondence.
 
#14
Tend to agree with the comments above - pitchfork would not be my weapon of choice - mine would be the media - far more damaging.

And as this government has proved time and time again in relation to the military that it likes to use the media as effectively as any Chicksands resident; It's only fair that the issues are presented back to them in such an effective way. Hey, but what do I know?

Hello, B49E There is monitoring of this net. Wait Out.
 
#15
"Come on lads! the CSM can't charge us all for going on the razzle when we're confined to camp!"

Riiiiight...
 
#16
Quote::
I will put my record in relation to both commitment and delivery up against anyone's...tell me what it is that a secretary of state for defence should be doing, that I am not doing... This is not an issue that has ever been raised with me by any serving soldier when I have been in an operational theatre."



Someone should give Broon the link to Arrse......
 
#17
Not that it's worth it (???) but you can 'Have your say' on the BBC News site.

Maybe our comments would at least get across to a section of the British public and give them a true picture of what is really going on...but it's not going to change a thing, there's no getting through to the fcukwits that "run" this country! :x

Have your say
 
#18
I did write to my MP recently, after the Home Sec's quip to the Labour Conference about the TA playing at soldiers. The letter is quoted here in the relevant thread.



Fas_et_gloria said:
FOR THE ATTENTION OF:

Dear My MP,

As a Territorial Officer with seventeen years’ service, I have spent much time during the second half of my life thus far, striving to recruit soldiers into the reserve forces. A significant proportion of the difficulty associated with ongoing recruitment has been the popular perception, since the end of national service, that the TA is little more than a hobby for those who have nothing better to do than play soldiers. It is interesting to consider Professor Richard Holmes’ comments with regard to this matter: the irony of the public perception of the TA as something akin to Dad’s Army, is that when Captain Mainwaring was strolling the promenade of Warmington-on-Sea, the TA were, once again, fighting and dying in France.
That the general public labour under the impression of the Territorial Army as worthy of little more than sneering contempt is something which the government, through the Ministry of Defence, has struggled to counter. During a period when the TA is mobilised in support of two active military operations, the requirement for which is a function of continued reductions in regular manpower and an aggressive expeditionary interventionist foreign policy, the denigratory use of another’s Territorial service in a cheap party political line is abhorrent. It is not merely disrespectful of the sacrifices made, and being made, by the armed forces at the behest of the present government, but does not become the holder of one of the three great offices of state.
I can only assume that such a disrespectful attitude is indicative of the Home Secretary’s personal ignorance of uniformed service, although I failed to notice a comparable wish to reduce the status and standing of the reserve forces during recent episodes when the military was required to render aid to the civil authorities under the control of this same Home Secretary.
It may be that had she seen fit to enrol in the University Officers Training Corps whilst up at Oxford, she would have garnered a passing understanding of the reserve forces, albeit not the Special Forces for whom she appears to hold such scathing contempt. I do understand that, for reasons of lifestyle choice, that she might have felt uncomfortable in an environment where she was potentially subject to compulsory drugs testing: this is not really an excuse for a lack of that awareness on her part.

I understand that you are extremely busy, but having had not even an acknowledgment of my last letter to you in respect of the government’s treatment of VC holding veterans, I would appreciate not only a reply to this letter but that you pass on to The Home Secretary my concern at the damage which she has done to the Reserve Forces and the, clearly wide sweeping, disrespect for and misunderstanding of them at the highest reaches of government. She is welcome to garner some comprehension of the reserve forces, of course by joining me and my comrades either on exercise or on one of our frequent six month sojourns to places hot and sandy.


Yours sincerely,

Fas
I eventually got an ackowledgement from my MP having sent it on various means, when it went from my armymail address. His office replied and cc'd me on the forward of it to MinAF.

This week, I received a copy of the letter from MinAF's desk back to my MP. I don't have it at hand to quote, but suffice to say that the government do take the armed forces and the TA in particular seriously, that TA rebalancing has brought huge benefits and that the wide ranging events planned for TA100 will show the regard in which the Reserve Forces are held.

The letter was sent from a .mod e-mail address, my letter and my MP's covering letter had my name and postal address in it, and I introduced myself as a serving TA officer. Seriously, if the answer was supposed to tell me anything I didn't know already, one has to wonder about the real extent of regard in which the forces can be held, if a minister of the crown can possibly think that any of his answers are even relevant to the questions which I asked from a position of (I flatter myself) enlightened interest.

Nothing I can say can possibly make a difference in the face of such deliberate and calculated obtuseness from the very people who ought to have our interests most at heart. I've been fucked about a bit, now and then, but I don't think I've ever felt so filthy as I did reading that and being sure that the patronising tone would rub off the very paper as I was holding it.

I have since signed the RBL's Broken Covenant petition.
 
#19
Northern_Biff said:
...
Someone should give Broon the link to Arrse......
Well, for anyone who might like to email the PM's office, to ensure that they know about www.ARRSE.co.uk the email link from the Number 10 website is:

Email the Prime Minister

Please note the:

Important, please note!

The PM receives many thousands of letters, faxes, and emails every week. So unfortunately it is not practical for him to respond to all of your messages.

However, all emails received are read by staff in Downing Street.

If you were stood by a fax machine (that you have the bill payers permission to use) and felt inclined to fax in your comment, you could Fax the PM's Office on 020 7925 0918, or +442079250918 if faxing from abroad.

Please note in line with I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here standard rules, your call may not be counted, but you will be charged for the call, no matter what time of day or night you ring.

For the traditionalists (and the decreasing number that can write), the post code of 10 Downing Street is SW1A 2AA

Is that the sort of information that you mean Northern Biff, if people wanted to let the PM know about ARRSE? :)
 
#20
Not that I expect a reply, but :

Dear Gordon
Just a quick note to let you know that I think you and the Labour Party are letting the Armed Forces down big time and thats the reason I won't be voting for you or any other member of the Labour Party in any forthcoming election ever, neither will my Wife or Son.
Yours,

Simon XXXXXX (Ex Army)
 

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